tchrist@convex.com (Tom Christiansen) (10/12/89)
I've been getting a lot of hate mail, most of which is automatic,
by self-appointed moderators of alt.sources for a comment I
posted there. And I'm pretty tired of it.
I CAN'T CANCEL THE DAMN MESSAGE SO GET OFF MY BACK!!!
I've tried and our news software is in some state of hosery
which disallows this practice. If you think alt.sources
should be restricted, moderate it. If not, stop bitching.
In any case, please lay off. I didn't subscribe to alt.sourced.d
and had forgotten it existed. It was not intentional misuse.
I'm tired of fighting off the dogs. Cut it out.
--tom
Tom Christiansen {uunet,uiucdcs,sun}!convex!tchrist
Convex Computer Corporation tchrist@convex.COM
"EMACS belongs in <sys/errno.h>: Editor too big!"ken@jose.uucp (Ken MacLeod) (10/14/89)
In article <2024@convex.UUCP>, tchrist@convex.com (Tom Christiansen) writes: > which disallows this practice. If you think alt.sources > should be restricted, moderate it. If not, stop bitching. It seems we can't cancel the messages for people, we can't send them mail requesting that they cancel them, what is there to do? 1) Make the group "moderated", with the "charter" that anyone can add the "Approved:" line. This allows the experienced poster (or their sysadmin) to post the article. The novice's post will be sent to a "moderator", which could just be a program that puts the article in alt.sources.d. This would also help with inadvertent cross-postings. 2) For my BBS, which is based on NetNews for the message base, I've set up a script to allow my Aides or I to move articles from one set of newsgroups to another. The script cancels the original message, takes a list of "from" newsgroups, removes them from "Newsgroups:", adds the "to" newsgroups (if any) and reposts the article to the new set of newsgroups (if there's still some left). The script uses a modified form of the original message-ID so that moves by two or more people will be caught by the duplicate article code, although there's no guarantee that any group of people will come up with the same set of "from" and "to" groups :-). [Implementation note if anyone wants to write their own and still be compatible with my code: I add an 'a' to the end of the sequence number before the '@' in the message-ID, successive moves of the same message will pile up the 'a's.] -- Ken MacLeod ken@i-core.UUCP
bart@videovax.tv.tek.com (Bart Massey) (10/15/89)
One thing that could conceivably help (albeit only slightly) is for all the sophisticated posters to alt.sources (especially the ones actually posting sources :-) to be careful to always put Followup-To: alt.sources.d headers in their postings. This should catch most unsophisticated followers-up (and at least force them to do the wrong thing explicitly :-). Bart Massey ..tektronix!videovax.tv.tek.com!bart ..tektronix!reed.bitnet!bart
pst@anise.acc.com (Paul Traina) (10/15/89)
bart@videovax.tv.tek.com (Bart Massey) writes: >One thing that could conceivably help (albeit only slightly) is for all the >sophisticated posters to alt.sources (especially the ones actually posting >sources :-) to be careful to always put > Followup-To: alt.sources.d Unfortunately, the messages that usually cause the most followups are things like "Does anyone know where I can get the latest source for rogue?" In a perfect world, we could have every news system administrator place a recording file explaining what alt.sources is for before allowing people to post to it. B news has this feature in postnews, but no where else. All in all, my vote is for retroactive censorship. Unfortunately, last time that was tried, there was a well deserved flamefest. :-( The only ways that sort of thing would be acceptable is if a major group of individuals banded together and agreed that non-source messages posted OR cross-posted to alt.sources would be cancelled and returned to their original author. (i.e. send out a cancel message and send the original message back to the author saying that s/he should repost it elsewhere) So, now it comes back to "do we want alt.sources.martial-law" :-)
news@bbn.COM (News system owner ID) (10/17/89)
tchrist@convex.com (Tom Christiansen) writes:
< ... If you think alt.sources
< should be restricted, moderate it. If not, stop bitching.
Funny, I thought alt.sources was supposed to be _un_ moderated, and
was created by the people who thought that moderating mod.sources was
facist.
USENET is a slow-moving parody of itself. Quiz question: how many
times has a non-moderated *.source* group been quazi-post-facto
moderated by someone canceling non-source postings?
< In any case, please lay off. I didn't subscribe to alt.sourced.d
< and had forgotten it existed. It was not intentional misuse.
< I'm tired of fighting off the dogs. Cut it out.
"A bit of tolerance is worth a megabyte of flaming." -- Henry Spencer
(who said it better than I could).
-- Paul Placeway <PPlaceway@bbn.com>kayvan@mrspoc.Transact.COM (Kayvan Sylvan) (10/17/89)
>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Traina <pst@anise.acc.com> writes:
Paul> The only ways that sort of thing would be acceptable is if a major group
Paul> of individuals banded together and agreed that non-source messages posted
Paul> OR cross-posted to alt.sources would be cancelled and returned to their
Paul> original author. (i.e. send out a cancel message and send the original
Paul> message back to the author saying that s/he should repost it elsewhere)
Paul> So, now it comes back to "do we want alt.sources.martial-law" :-)
Hey, go for it!!!
If we all agree that non-source postings to alt.sources are bad, and
the alt.sources.commandos agree to only nuke non-source postings, I
don't see the harm in it.
---Kayvan
--
Kayvan Sylvan @ Transact Software, Inc. -*- Los Altos, CA (415) 961-6112
Internet: kayvan@Transact.COM -*- UUCP: ...!{apple,pyramid,mips}!mrspoc!kayvan
= Interested in story telling group? Mail yarn-spinners-request@transact.com =karl@sugar.hackercorp.com (Karl Lehenbauer) (10/17/89)
Sometimes the problem is less disruptive than the cure. I feel this way a lot when reading news.groups and news.admin. Volume in alt.sources is not that high. The 'n' key works, and rn users can even use 'k' or 'K' to nuke the thread. I would recommend an alt.sources monthly posting, but we do that over in comp.sys.amiga* and still get a lot of postings where people are obviously coming into the group for the first time and blasting off a request without scanning through the message base at all. So it's sort of a net-wide problem with unmoderated groups, anyway... -- -- uunet!sugar!karl "There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that -- flags do not wave in a vacuum." -- Arthur C. Clarke -- Usenet access: (713) 438-5018
tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) (10/17/89)
Guys, I was playing the devil's advocate when I apparently suggested
moderating alt.sources; I was hoping to spark some comment on how
undesirable this would be. It's true: I committed the cardinal sin of
email by omitting my ``:-)'' punctuation. Forgive me. I really do NOT
want to see this happen.
--tom
Tom Christiansen {uunet,uiucdcs,sun}!convex!tchrist
Convex Computer Corporation tchrist@convex.COM
"EMACS belongs in <sys/errno.h>: Editor too big!"allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) (10/19/89)
As quoted from <46988@bbn.COM> by news@bbn.COM (News system owner ID): +--------------- | tchrist@convex.com (Tom Christiansen) writes: | < ... If you think alt.sources | < should be restricted, moderate it. If not, stop bitching. | | Funny, I thought alt.sources was supposed to be _un_ moderated, and | was created by the people who thought that moderating mod.sources was | facist. +--------------- Actually, it was created by people who thought that moderating net.sources was fascist. It is worth noting that I support alt.sources, however... moderation is not for all sources or for all times, and it carries certain implied duties in the monds of posters on the part of the moderator which are guaranteed to slow things down. But unmoderation, as has been made obvious by our "friend" Dunc, has its down points. I think we can find ways to deal with the occasional Dunc (or, for that matter, a Bob Webber), though, and the existing means seem to work for other offenders. ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery, moderator of comp.sources.misc allbery@NCoast.ORG uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu bsa@telotech.uucp 161-7070 (MCI), ALLBERY (Delphi), B.ALLBERY (GEnie), comp-sources-misc@backbone [comp.sources.misc-related mail should go ONLY to comp-sources-misc@<backbone>] *Third party vote-collection service: send mail to allbery@uunet.uu.net (ONLY)*