keving@GAFFA.WPD.SGI.COM (Kevin Gurney) (07/13/89)
> From meadley@cyan.UUCP Tue Jul 11 09:55:18 1989 > Re-reading Kate's interview in January 1986 (Island-Ear > Interview), Kate definately states "it is very much about > someone trying to make it through the night in the water - > alone, scared and not really knowing what's happening, but > going through the experience and hopefully coming out the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > other side with an appreciation of what's *really* going on." > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > This certainly suggests to me that the person DOES survive. On the other hand, "coming out the other side" _could_ mean that the person in the water has died and is now in Heaven, or Nirvana, or "another plane of existence" or whatever. Also, why did Kate say "someone _trying_ to make it through the night" (emphasis added) if she meant "someone making it through the night"? Granted this is a conversation and people aren't generally as careful in talking as they are in writing, but maybe this is some sort of Freudian slip. If someone can point me to a Kate KuoTe that says "Oh yes, she survives and returns to her family a better person for the experience", or somesuch, then I shall admit defeat and never again even THINK that she drowns. Until then I shall stubornly maintain that the joyful sounds of John Williams guitar ("The Morning Fog") is a metaphor for Angelic Harps and that our heroine does indeed die. Sorry to hash this up again. Actually, it beats all this "Wait! I saw an episode of 'LA Law'" opinion of the day vis a vis copyright infringment stuff. -- Pres. Bush's biggest fear about a burning flag is that he won't be able to unwrap himself from it in time. keving@gaffa.wpd.sgi.com
kurtzman@POLLUX.USC.EDU (Stephen Kurtzman) (07/14/89)
In article <8907130423.AA14650@gaffa.wpd.sgi.com> keving@GAFFA.WPD.SGI.COM (Kevin Gurney) writes: >> From meadley@cyan.UUCP Tue Jul 11 09:55:18 1989 >> Re-reading Kate's interview in January 1986 (Island-Ear >> Interview), Kate definately states "it is very much about >> someone trying to make it through the night in the water - >> alone, scared and not really knowing what's happening, but >> going through the experience and hopefully coming out the >> other side with an appreciation of what's *really* going on." >> This certainly suggests to me that the person DOES survive. > >On the other hand, "coming out the other side" _could_ mean that >the person in the water has died and is now in Heaven, or Nirvana, or "another >plane of existence" or whatever. Yeah, its pretty clear that the person does not survive. Otherwise you have to make all sorts of out-of-body experience hypotheses to account for her being a ghost watching her loved one in "Watching you Without Me" and her ability to play peek-a-boo with the earth in "Hello Earth". Not to mention: >I shall stubornly maintain that the joyful sounds of John Williams guitar >("The Morning Fog") is a metaphor for Angelic Harps and that our heroine does >indeed die. Now for a real controversial question: Why do people on this net worship this woman. I'll grant that she writes interesting music and poetry, and that she is attractive, but seriously, why all the dedication? ----- kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu "Make no mistake when mystiquing a make" -- Maggie Roche
keving@GAFFA.WPD.SGI.COM (Kevin Gurney) (07/14/89)
kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu asks: > Now for a real controversial question: Why do people on this net worship > this woman. I'll grant that she writes interesting music and poetry, and > that she is attractive, but seriously, why all the dedication? You mean "why all the dediKaTion?", don't you? But seriously, as the biggest (ie looniest) KaTe fan at my place o' employment I am asked this question a lot, usually just after "Why is your machine named 'gaffa'?", "Who is the woman in all the posters on your wall?", and "Are you going to England again?" (just kidding about the last one). KaTe is the only pop figure I've ever idolized. I don't like the term "worship", because its more religious connotations are also important to me. So why the idolization? Well, for me, her physical beauty and sensuality are very strong attractors, but that's not why I'm so infatuated with her. The fact that she's a good poet and singer are also things that I consider "neat" to "great", but these aren't why I'd give my spleen to work with her either. The primary reason I'm infatuated with Kate is because of her skill as a songwriter/musician/producer. I'm a musician myself (cello) and hearing Kate's detailed and spirited music just sends shivers up my spine. Her music isn't just "good" to my ears, it's important that I hear it and important that it be heard by everyone who cares about the craft of music. She's also a real musical morale booster, in the sense that her music has evolved and she's explored such new territory in such a short time (although it DOES seem to be an un-naturally slow process when you're waiting for KBVI). If she can make these wonderul sounds, perhaps my own writing and performance can achieve something similar. I guess you could say that I look at Kate as a sort of mentor. Well, that's enough blather from me. What about other folks out there? Why all the dediKaTion to Kate? -- Pres. Bush's biggest fear about a burning flag is that he won't be able to unwrap himself from it in time. keving@gaffa.wpd.sgi.com
manderso@UGLY.CS.UBC.CA (Mark Anderson) (07/15/89)
Yes, I know this has been discussed and discussed and discussed, but it's _my_ first contribution... In <18505@usc.edu> Stephen Kurtzman writes re _The_Ninth_Wave_: >Yeah, its pretty clear that the person does not survive. Otherwise >you have to make all sorts of out-of-body experience hypotheses to >account for her being a ghost watching her loved one in "Watching you >Without Me" and her ability to play peek-a-boo with the earth in >"Hello Earth". No! No! No! She does NOT die (IMHO)! Before I bought _HoL_, I had already read a bunch of arguments discussing the subject here in Love-Hounds. So when I finally bought the album, I thought I would have a lot of trouble deciding whether or not she dies at the end of _The_Ninth_Wave_. But to my surprise, I found that after only a couple of listenings, I definitely had the feeling she survives. Not, perhaps, because of what the lyrics say (as we have already seen, the lyrics are ambiguous) but because of the feelings and emotions the music evoked. In particular, _The_Morning_Fog_ seems to be about, well, the morning fog. That is, making it through the night. Regarding the argument that you have to believe Kate is talking about out-of-body experiences unless she means that the heroine dies: personally, I think _WYwoM_ describes a hallucinatory experience the heroine is having, in perhaps an almost dreamlike state in the water. Ditto _Hello Earth_. And I'm pretty sure Kate herself has given this explanantion before. However... In a Love-Hounds article of Fri Jan 31 23:13:47 1986, |>oug replies to someone's question about Kate's beliefs in the paranormal: >> And [Kate believes in] astral projection? [...] > >Yeah, astral projection. Listen to "Watching You Without Me" and "Hello >Earth". She's admited to believing in most of these things at some >point or another, but doesn't seemed to be particularly obsessed with >any of them. --- Mark Anderson <manderso@ugly.cs.ubc.ca> {att!alberta,uw-beaver,uunet}!ubc-cs!{good,bad,ugly}!manderso "Narrow mind would persecute it, die a little to get to it..."
rjc@edai.edinburgh.ac.UK (Richard Caley) (07/16/89)
kurtzman%pollux.usc.edu@usc.edu In article <18505@usc.edu> >Yeah, its pretty clear that the person does not survive. Otherwise >you have to make all sorts of out-of-body experience hypotheses to >account for her being a ghost watching her loved one in "Watching you >Without Me" and her ability to play peek-a-boo with the earth in >"Hello Earth". No, you just have to believe that a person near death is liable to halucinate. If she died how could she kiss the earth in The Sweet Morning Fog? Reincarnation does not help; she tells her brother,mother,lover how she loves them ( not loved! ). She is dying in Hello Earth, hence the far away dreamy tone, but she is picked up. Besides, if she dies the whole thing is pointless. The Sweet Morning Fog becomes just a silly song about a ghost telling her mother what she felt; yawn. But since she survives, we see it is a great piece of music describing how a terrible experience affects someone, and how it makes her think of what she has to live for. -- rjc@uk.ac.ed.edai " It's a terrible habbit, quotes " - Mayland Long