[net.lan] Use of Ethernet Repeaters: Summary of Responses

pag@hao.UUCP (Peter Gross) (01/04/84)

The following are the mail responses I received concerning the use
of Ethernet repeaters.

--peter gross
****************************************************Response 1****
There are two kinds of repeaters:
1) a simple state machine connected (via 50 meter tranceiver cables) to a pair
of tranceivers on two coax segments.  Xerox for sure makes these, costs several
hundreds of dollars (plus tranceivers)
2) a repeater with 1km of cable in it's middle.  I've never seen this as a
distinct product.  I suspect you really use two repeaters and 1km of coax,
getting the extra distance out of only two taps, not 100 so few reflections and
low load.
Codenol makes a fiber-optic cable tranceiver which will drive 1km of untapped
cable, but this may not be cheaper.

The official rule is that any path between two nodes on a single node may not
pass thru more than 2 repeaters, nor more than 2.5km  (longer cable would
compromise collision detection).

You can cut the cost of coax by using RG-8 type cable instead of "real" Ether-
net cable.  Belden 8214 coax is both 50 ohm and 78% light-speed propagation, as
real cable.  The main differences are : 1) non-teflon so you can't use in
plenums (but you can also buy non-teflon ethernet cable at 20% cost)
2) only a single shield so more signal leakage both in and out, so probably
not advisable for large nets or long cable runs.  (XSIS, who markets Dolphins
actually told me about RG-8)
****************************************************Response 2****

I think repeaters are just a way of isolating coax segments and
(hopefully) isolating some of the cumulative phase problems.

DEC lists a repeater as a product.
It connects via standard modems so the modem-repeater is the standard
length.  In addition, you can have two repeaters in any path so they
have an option to put up to 1000 meter fiber optic link between
two repeaters so as to connect two different coax segments.
This is really no different, with respect to the spec, than having the
two repeaters connected by a piece of ethernet coax.

I have a glossy from DEC on this, call me if you like.

Another cute item that DEC has for their own Ethernet interfaces
is a local network interconnect that lets you hook up as many as 8
of their interface boards together without any ethernet coax or transcievers.
The Local Network Interconnect box CAN be connected to a chunk of coax
with a transciever in which case the interfaces plugged into it will all
share use of that transciever.  This ONLY works with their interfaces --
it looks like a bunch of the brains in their system is out in the transciever.



Doesn't Interlan make a repeater?
****************************************************Response 3****
As I understand it, repeaters are indeed connected by transcievers to
their coaxes. The only purpose is to extend the electrical length of the
cable by regenerating the signals at each end.  I would expect all the
usual rules about transceiver cables to apply, and remember that the
end-to-end distance for the total system still has to be within the
system limit because of propagation delay limits.
****************************************************Response 4****
Two segments of Ethernet coax can be connected by a repeater.  The Ethernet
segment-to-repeater cable is transceiver cable (50m max.).  This type of
repeater is called a local repeater.  A remote repeater is similar to a 
local repeater cut in half, with each half connected to its coax segment
over transceiver cable (as before).  However, the remote repeater halves may
have up to 1Km of coax between them.

So the max length of an Ethernet system (according to v2.0 specs and IEEE 802)
would be:
	50m X 2 transceiver cable for the transceivers
	50m X 2 transceiver cable for the remote repeater
	1Km     coax cable between the halves of the remote repeater
	50m X 2 transceiver cable for another local repeater (specs allow for
				a max of 2 repeaters between any 2 stations,
				worst case)
	500m X 3 coax cable for the 3 segments that the signal will have to 
				travel, worst case.
----------------
	2.8 Km max.

In the systems we design, we usually use the Ungermann-Bass repeater.  The 
2.8 Km limit will allow a fairly large LAN to be constructed if you use a
physical star topology.