[rec.music.gaffa] Babooshka Grammar

Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/08/89)

Really-From: Michael Mendelson <mendel@cs.uiuc.edu>

I was listening to the Whole Story today and in the song Babooshka,
I thought I heard Kate say

		"She couldn't have made a worst move..."
					  ----^

which is grammatically incorrect (it should be worsE).  So I checked
the lyrics I have from the lyrics server, and (although I know there
are some mistakes in there) they said "worse."

I listened to the song again and indeed Kate utters a very pronounced
worsT.  Has anyone else noticed this?  Is Kate intentionally erring?
Or am I missing something subtle in the lyrics?  I suppose the sentence
could mean that "She was incapable of making a WORST move," but from
the context, this does not appear to be the intended meaning.

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Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/09/89)

Really-From: jsd@gaffa.mit.edu (Jon Drukman)


In article <8908081522.AA19540@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Love-Hounds@GAFFA.MIT.EDU writes:
>Really-From: Michael Mendelson <mendel@cs.uiuc.edu>
>
>I was listening to the Whole Story today and in the song Babooshka,
>I thought I heard Kate say
>
>		"She couldn't have made a worst move..."
>					  ----^

You know what I find interesting is that it sounds a hell of a lot
like Kate starts to say "choice" and then replaced the word on the
master tape with "move" but did a sloppy punch-in job.  I have always
thought this but never mentioned it to anyone.  This seems like a good
opportuinity to bring it up.  Anyone else hear it?  Listen carefully -
I'm almost positive there's a glitch there of one sort or another...

+---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? --------------------+
|  |   |\        | jsd@gaffa.mit.edu | "I think quotes are very dangerous   |
| \|on |/rukman  | jsd@umass.bitnet  |  things."  -- Kate Bush              |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/09/89)

Really-From: Mark Anderson <manderso@ugly.cs.ubc.ca>

Michael Mendelson <mendel@cs.uiuc.edu> writes:
> I thought I heard Kate say
> 		"She couldn't have made a worst move..."
> 					  ----^

jsd@gaffa.mit.edu (Jon Drukman) writes:
> You know what I find interesting is that it sounds a hell of a lot
> like Kate starts to say "choice" and then replaced the word on the
> master tape with "move" but did a sloppy punch-in job. 

Until I got the lyrics with _Never_For_Ever_, I thought Kate was
singing "choice"--albeit with a rather strange pronunciation.
Actually it sounds like "chove" to me, suggesting Jon's theory might
have some merit.  Though I thought Kate was too much a perfectionist
to let that slip by.

And since we're on the topic of Babooshka grammar, is there any such
word as "freezed"?
-- 
Mark Anderson <manderso@ugly.cs.ubc.ca>
{att!alberta,uw-beaver,uunet}!ubc-cs!ugly.cs.ubc.ca!manderso
"Narrow mind would persecute it, die a little to get to it..."

Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/09/89)

Really-From: motcid!marble!meadley@uunet.UU.NET (A. Meadley)

Michael Mendelson <mendel@cs.uiuc.edu> says:
>I thought I heard Kate say
>		"She couldn't have made a worst move..."

Yes. That is what I have always heard on "Never For Ever", too.

As far as I can recall from my English lessons at school, worse
compares two things ("This is the worse of the two") and worst
compares three or more things ("This is the worst of the three").

So Kate is implying several (ie. three or more) options of which 
the one she took was the "worst".

Ant in Chicago
uunet!motcid!meadley

Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/10/89)

Really-From: tracyr@uunet.uu.net (jane smallberries)


In article <8908081522.AA19540@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Love-Hounds@GAFFA.MIT.EDU writes:
>Really-From: Michael Mendelson <mendel@cs.uiuc.edu>
>
>I was listening to the Whole Story today and in the song Babooshka,
>I thought I heard Kate say
>
>		"She couldn't have made a worst move..."
>					  ----^
>
>which is grammatically incorrect (it should be worsE).  
> 
>		[..thinks he definitely hears..]
>              [..her sing "worsT" nevertheless..]

my guess is that it's "intentional erring", michael.  altho i
prefer to call it Artistic Liscense, myself.  

i think kate uses this technique elsewhere--for example, in "breathing",
i could swear she sings, "my radar send me danger, but my instincts
                                   ^^^^
tell me to keep breathing."  ofcourse, this could also be attributed
to that zany british convention of considering something like radar
to be more than one thing, but who knows.

someone's playing debbie gibson in the parking lot--time to put on
my headphones and dream of sheep...

"that cloud is nothing but trouble."

-tracy
...!uunet!sco!tracyr,
tracyr@sco.com

-- 

---

Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/10/89)

Really-From: Michael Mendelson <mendel@cs.uiuc.edu>

Ant in Chicago writes:

		Michael Mendelson <mendel@cs.uiuc.edu> [that's me] says:
		>I thought I heard Kate say
		>		"She couldn't have made a worst move..."

	Yes. That is what I have always heard on "Never For Ever", too.

	As far as I can recall from my English lessons at school, worse
	compares two things ("This is the worse of the two") and worst
	compares three or more things ("This is the worst of the three").
	
	So Kate is implying several (ie. three or more) options of which 
	the one she took was the "worst".

Unfortunately, I don't think it works that way, Ant.  WORST is the
superlative form, whereas WORSE can be used as a superlative, or as a
*comparative*.  You are correct when you say that (as superlatives)
WORSE is of two things, and WORST is of greater than two things.  But
what Kate seems to be using in Babooshka is the comparative.

The case is more clear if we pretend she's saying a BETTER move.  Using
analogies, GOOD:BAD = BETTER:WORSE = BEST:WORST.  

	"She couldn't have made a BEST move..." 
	
is clearly ungrammatical (in the sense Kate seems to want here),
whereas

	"She couldn't have made a BETTER move..." 
	
is grammatical.  In the same way WORSE is better than WORST.  
In the words of another song-writing genius, "You better you bet!"

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