Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/27/89)
Really-From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu> > [Brian Berns:] Excellent. Thank you, IED. Am I the only one who > thinks "Night of the Swallow" is the best song on _TD_? I mean, > "Suspended in Gaffa" is OK, but it means nothing to me, as I have no > idea what "Gaffa" is. I don't think that all the debate over "Suspended in Gaffa" occurs because most people think that it is the best song on the album, but rather because it is one of the more difficult songs to figure out. Personally, "Suspended in Gaffa" is far from my favorite song on the album. My favorite songs are "Night of the Swallow", "Get Out of My House", "Leave it Open", and "Pull Out the Pin". "Sat in Your Lap" is a close runner up. Kate says that "Gaffa" is gaffer's tape (i.e. duct tape). It is a very sticky, but removable tape that is used by musicians to tape down all the myriad wires they have to deal with while recording or performing. The image that Kate seems to be invoking is that of becoming mired in the very means that she needs to achieve her goals. I don't think that this knowledge of the meaning of "Gaffa" is really needed for an understanding of the song, however. Before I knew that Gaffa is gaffer's tape, I pictured it as being molasis. This led to a pretty similar interpretation. The only thing I was lacking was the neat implication that it is the very tools needed to achieve ones goals that can be what is hindering you. |>oug
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/27/89)
Really-From: berns@lti2.lti.com (Brian Berns x26) >> [Me:] "Suspended in Gaffa" is OK, but it means nothing to me, as I have no >> idea what "Gaffa" is. >> Smiley-face, smiley-face, etc. > [|>ougy:] Kate says that "Gaffa" is gaffer's tape (i.e. duct tape). It is a > very sticky, but removable tape that is used by musicians to tape down > all the myriad wires they have to deal with while recording or > etc. At the time I wrote the original, I thought it was the funniest thing I had said all month. Apparently, I over-estimated myself. > My favorite songs are "Night of the Swallow", "Get Out of My > House", "Leave it Open", and "Pull Out the Pin". Me, too (more or less). Let's talk about these songs! And let's *not* talk about the amazing technical accomplishment of the "We let the weirdness in" section of "Leave it Open". > I don't think that all the debate over "Suspended in Gaffa" occurs > because most people think that it is the best song on the album, but > rather because it is one of the more difficult songs to figure out. "Figure out"? I agree that music should be challenging, but this is absurd. You treat the song like it's a math problem. Have you ever thought (I'm sure this is blasPhemY) that there are better things in life than to force lyrics into having *exact* meanings? Does anyone out there think the lyrics to this song are particularly *good* by Katian standards. Not that I've heard. Then why debate over it? > The only thing I was lacking was the > neat implication that it is the very tools needed to achieve ones > goals that can be what is hindering you. You're right, that is a pretty cool implication. And one that I have not seen before in all the Gaffa debating. But it's *your* idea, probably not Kate's. Look, here's a quote from R.E.M.: Swan, swan, hummingbird Hurrah We are all free now What noisy cats are we Long low time ago People talk to me What *exactly* does it mean? Who cares, it just sounds cool when you sing it. Whatever associations and implications it brings to mind (for me, alot) are yours. Whatever Michael Stipe was thinking when he wrote it is of only mild interest to me. When I heard that the amazingly beautiful poetic wonderful song "Fall on Me" was about acid rain, I was really pissed off. I try not to think about that when I hear: Buy the sky and sell the sky Lift your arms up to the sky And ask the sky Don't fall on me I use R.E.M. becuase it's clear that their lyrics are *intentionally* without obvious exact meaning. I hope the same is true of Kate, because if she is really trying to communicate precise ideas in "Suspended in Gaffa", she isn't doing a very good job. But feel free to continue digging. -- Brian ..buita!lti!berns P.S. Sorry for the conversational delay. I'm writing this on Wed. Sept. 27 from Salem, MA. Don't know why it takes so long to reach the net.
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/29/89)
Really-From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu> > [Brian Berns:] "Figure out"? I agree that music should be > challenging, but this is absurd. You treat the song like it's a > math problem. Have you ever thought (I'm sure this is blasPhemY) > that there are better things in life than to force lyrics into > having *exact* meanings? It depends on the song. Sometimes the lyrics to a song do seem like an intriguing puzzle. Often Kate's lyrics are like this to me, and I have a good time trying to figure them out. Other songs I don't care to try to figure out a precise meaning -- I just like the way they sound. It depends on the song. By the way, I like interesting math problems too. > Does anyone out there think the lyrics to this song are particularly > *good* by Katian standards. Not that I've heard. Then why debate > over it? I guess when I see someone say something I think is really ridiculous, I am compelled to reply. Perhaps this is why I ended up with a Philosophy degree.... Also the fact that IED kept accusing me of being a liar when I said that Kate said that "Gaffa" is gaffer's tape didn't help. She did in fact say this, which IED will now reluctantly admit. (By the way, this is a perfect example of IED's preposterous assumption that he knows Kate so well that he knows what she would and would not say. In this case, IED was wrong, wrong, wrong.) >> The only thing I was lacking was the neat implication that it is >> the very tools needed to achieve ones goals that can be what is >> hindering you. > You're right, that is a pretty cool implication. And one that I > have not seen before in all the Gaffa debating. But it's *your* > idea, probably not Kate's. Why do you think Kate didn't intend this? Why did she pick gaffer's tape as the material she's stuck in then? Why didn't she pick molasses, or tar, or fly paper instead? |>oug
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/29/89)
Really-From: Woj <woiccare@clutx.clarkson.edu> > Why do you think Kate didn't intend this? Why did she pick gaffer's > tape as the material she's stuck in then? Why didn't she pick > molasses, or tar, or fly paper instead? > > |>oug Just to throw another idea onto the (already burning) fire, I looked up the word "gaffa" in my trusty, rusty Webster's New Collegiate and dis- covered that it wasn't there. However, there is a word "gaffe" (pronounced /gaf/) meaning a social blunder. Perhaps this is why she picked gaffa rather than molasses - in the context of the song ("She can't have it all"), it could be interpreted as suspended in a social faux pas - but then maybe I'm just digging... Actually, who cares? I like the song just the way it is! woj --- woiccare@clutx.clarkson.edu
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/29/89)
Really-From: berns@lti2.lti.com (Brian Berns x26) |>oug: >>> The only thing I was lacking was the neat implication that it is >>> the very tools needed to achieve ones goals that can be what is >>> hindering you. Me: >> You're right, that is a pretty cool implication. And one that I >> have not seen before in all the Gaffa debating. But it's *your* >> idea, probably not Kate's. |>oug: > Why do you think Kate didn't intend this? Why did she pick gaffer's > tape as the material she's stuck in then? Why didn't she pick > molasses, or tar, or fly paper instead? |>oug, |>oug, |>oug. Think about your interview with Kate herself, oh so long ago. She disagreed with many of your half-way rational ideas about her songs. Even accounting for the fact that she was being coy, I think there's a lesson there. I have no idea why she chose gaffer's tape over anything else. But I'd bet a dollar that after a decade of thinking about *whatever* she chose, you would have nine different reasons why it was the most beautiful, rational decision she could have possibly made. Face it, artists only rarely *intend* very subtle implications of their work. There are lots of interesting theories about how these implications arise anyway, but that's not the point here. Kate herself just said: "I think really that art should become simpler rather than more complicated; and in a lot of ways it worries me that I think this album is quite a complex thing." We have here a person who is striving for simplicity in her work, though maybe not always achieving it. -- Brian ...buita!lti!berns
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (10/03/89)
Really-From: hplabs!grega@hp-ptp.hp.com (Number 6) Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu>: >Why do you think Kate didn't intend this? Why did she pick gaffer's >tape as the material she's stuck in then? Why didn't she pick >molasses, or tar, or fly paper instead? Because "gaffer" tape is used (I should say, by now, *was* used) to edit recording tape. It is *Splicing tape*, not *Duct tape* (of course, to some people it might be duct tape, but to recording engineers it is splicing tape). Therefore, Kate and all other recording artists are "Suspended in (Gaffer Tape)"(At least, their voices are!) ============================================================================== | Greg Anderson | hpdsla!grega | grega@hpdsla.HP.COM | ============================================================================== | "Time is a child playing draughts: the kingship is in the hands of the | | child" -- Heraclitus | ==============================================================================
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (10/06/89)
Really-From: Nick Kings <nkings@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> From article <3340004@hp-ptp.HP.COM>, by Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU: > Really-From: hplabs!grega@hp-ptp.hp.com (Number 6) Wot no Rover? > > > Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu>: >>Why do you think Kate didn't intend this? Why did she pick gaffer's >>tape as the material she's stuck in then? > Because "gaffer" tape is used (I should say, by now, *was* used) to edit > recording tape. What? I thought "Suspended in Gaffa" meant "Suspended in Gaffa" NjK Gaffa c.f. Nirvana [see Gurdjief (sp)(no text here)] - Nick Kings - nkings@axion.bt.co.uk - ...mcvax!ukc!axion!nkings - Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics:- "Things get worse under pressure"
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (10/06/89)
Really-From: dbk@cs.UMD.EDU (Dan Kozak) Really-From: hplabs!grega@hp-ptp.hp.com (Number 6) > Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu>: >>Why do you think Kate didn't intend this? Why did she pick gaffer's >>tape as the material she's stuck in then? Why didn't she pick >>molasses, or tar, or fly paper instead? > Because "gaffer" tape is used (I should say, by now, *was* used) to edit > recording tape. It is *Splicing tape*, not *Duct tape* (of course, to > some people it might be duct tape, but to recording engineers it is > splicing tape). > Therefore, Kate and all other recording artists are "Suspended in (Gaffer Tape)"(At least, their voices are!) No. A gaffer is a lighting man (read your movie credits, you'll see grips and gaffers; grips are the people who move things around). And gaffer's tape is known to the layman as duct tape. Splicing tape is called, for obscure historical reasons, "splicing tape", to distinguish it from "tape" which is what one records music on. Having spent a significant fraction of my adult life in recording studios, I can guarantee you that this is true. #dan Clever: dbk@mimsy.umd.edu | "For I was rolled in water, Not-so-clever: uunet!mimsy!dbk | I was rolled out past the pier" - MoB