Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/23/89)
Really-From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu>
I got inspired last night and pulled down all my boxes of Kate Bush
paraphilnalia (I hurt my back doing it too!) and searched through all
my magazines, meticulously searching for the interview where Kate
refers to "Night of the Swallow" as "Nice to Swallow". I searched
most intensely where I thought I'd find it, but it was to no avail.
Just as I was about to give up, I spotted another magazine that was
vaguely similar in size, color, and shape to the magazine I had
expected to find it in, so I looked in there, and there it was!
So, here is the quote that IED stubbornly refused to believe existed.
I hope that IED will give me the *HUGE* apology that he promised. It
is from *Sounds Fan Library No. 9: Lady Killers*. Pat Benetar is on
the cover. Inside there is an interview with Kate (among lots of
other junk), and on page 35, Kate comments on all of her albums.
These are the comments on *The Dreaming*:
Again I'm very fond of this because it's my latest and because
it represents *total* control, owing to the fact that I
produced it by myself. It's the hardest thing I've ever done
-- it was even harder than touring! The whole experience was
very worrying, very frightening but at the same time very
rewarding.
It took a long time to do but I think there are some very
intense songs and the ones I like best of all are 'Nice To
Swallow', 'Houdini', and 'Get Out'. All in all, I was very
proud of this record.
I am NEVER going to this much trouble again to counter IED's disbelief
of my perfect knowledge. Twice is enough.
|>ougLove-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/26/89)
Really-From: stewarte@ucscc.UCSC.EDU (The Man Who Invented Himself) Was I only dreaming, or did Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu> actually say: [Re: the elusive "Nice to Swallow" quote] >I hope that IED will give me the *HUGE* apology that he promised. It >is from *Sounds Fan Library No. 9: Lady Killers*. Pat Benetar is on >the cover. Inside there is an interview with Kate (among lots of >other junk), and on page 35, Kate comments on all of her albums. [...] > It took a long time to do but I think there are some very > intense songs and the ones I like best of all are 'Nice To > Swallow', 'Houdini', and 'Get Out'. Given the source, don't you think it's possible that the reviewer simply misheard Kate's pronounciation of "Night of the Swallow"? I mean, this being a magazine of questionable Kateliness, it's entirely possible that the interviewer's knowledge of "The Dreaming" was less than complete.... I suppose I should have waited to see whether IED would apologize before posting this, but somehow I doubt he will.... -- "I have no desire to live in a country that doesn't allow you to have any fun." -- Anonymous East German fleeing to the West
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/28/89)
Really-From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu> > [Robert Rubinoff:] It seems plausible to me that the interviewer > mis-heard or mis-remembered what Kate said. These things do happen. Is it plausible that the interviewer misheard Kate? Yes, it is *plausible*. However, it is far from the likeliest explanation. It is *not* plausible that the interviewer misremembered what Kate said. This was clearly not an interview transccribed via memory. I'd like to point out that for each album Kate lists her favorite tracks. Every other song name is correct, or a shortened version of the correct name. If the interviewer was so bad, how come his or her accuracy on the other song titles is on the mark? |>oug
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (10/05/89)
Really-From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu> > From: James Smith <munnari!cc.nu.oz.au!CCJS@uunet.UU.NET> > What makes you think the writer was familiar with Kate's work? I already told about this. The interviewer talks about how he had been an admirer of Kate's for a long time. When *The Dreaming* came out he didn't like the album, but as he listened to it more and more, it grew on him until he decided it was Kate's most inspired work to date. This is *obviously* someone who is familiar with *The Dreaming*. If "Nice to Swallow" is a mistake, it is clearly not the mistake of the interviewer, but rather of the typesetters. >> It took a long time to do but I think there are some very >> intense songs and the ones I like best of all are 'Nice To >> Swallow', 'Houdini', and 'Get Out'. All in all, I was very >> proud of this record. > Note that not one but two song titles are misquoted, and there is > no reason for misquoting the second one. Perhaps one could argue > laziness on the part of the writer, or a typographical error, or > even a desire for brevity on Kate's part, though I find that > suprising. You are being kind of silly. Kate said "Get Out" because it is her shorthand for "Get Out Of My House". Musicians almost often have short names for their songs with long names. Do you think they like saying while working on an album, "Now let's work on 'Get Out Of My House' for a bit"? No, they'd rather say, "Now let's work on 'Get Out' for a bit". > To my mind the above does not show any great knowledge of _The > Dreaming_ or indeed of Kate's work. And Doug says that this is the > entire extent of the interview's comments on _The Dreaming_. I never said any such thing. > Where does he say that he has listened to _The Dreaming_ many times? Or > that he is familiar with Kate's work? In the interview, as I previously mentioned. It's partly an essay and partly an interview. The interviewer also gives a short history of Kate's career. |>oug
CCJS@cc.nu.oz (James Smith) (10/05/89)
Stewart Evans writes: > It should be noted, in IED's attack on |>oug's competence, that the word > that he claims |>oug misheard was considerably less obvious from context > than "Night of the Swallow" would be to someone who knew Kate's work. What makes you think the writer was familiar with Kate's work? The dreaded interview: > Again I'm very fond of this because it's my latest and because > it represents *total* control, owing to the fact that I > produced it by myself. It's the hardest thing I've ever done > -- it was even harder than touring! The whole experience was > very worrying, very frightening but at the same time very > rewarding. > > It took a long time to do but I think there are some very > intense songs and the ones I like best of all are 'Nice To > Swallow', 'Houdini', and 'Get Out'. All in all, I was very > proud of this record. Note that not one but two song titles are misquoted, and there is no reason for misquoting the second one. Perhaps one could argue laziness on the part of the writer, or a typographical error, or even a desire for brevity on Kate's part, though I find that suprising. My opinion is that someone interviewed Kate, and someone else 'Ghost wrote' the interview from a bad tape recording. And that a third person prepared the discography. That's my opinion, though. Stewart continues: > However, it does bring yet another (admittedly far-fetched) possibility > to mind: that the interviewer mis-heard Kate, but assumed she was > making a pun or inside joke. However, given !>oug's citation of the > interviewer's comments about "The Dreaming", I'm willing to believe > that the quote was taken down correctly -- it now seems to me the > simplest explanation. To my mind the above does not show any great knowledge of _The Dreaming_ or indeed of Kate's work. And Doug says that this is the entire extent of the interview's comments on _The Dreaming_. > However, the fact that > the interviewer claimed to be familiar with Kate's work, and specifically > to have listened to The Dreaming many times, makes this possibility seem > less likely. Where does he say that he has listened to _The Dreaming_ many times? Or that he is familiar with Kate's work? > I think that > the only plausible source of error here is transcription error -- the two > phrases _sound_ much more alike than they _look_. > the simplest explanation > seems to be that Kate really said "Nice to Swallow", for whatever reason. The simplest explanation seems to be that Kate has been mistranscribed. Perhaps the volume was set too low, or someone coughed. I have yet to see any reference to Kate using this particular expression on any other occasion, or indeed of her connecting "Night of the Swallow" with fellatio in any manner whatsoever. Can anyone supply one? > both IED and |>oug are so stubborn > that there can be no hope of resolving this dispute short of placing them > in a locked room together and declare the survivor to be factually correct > in all things. The discussion does seem to be descending to the level of name calling. I don't mind long, witty diatribes, but a high anger level does take the enjoyment out of it for third parties. Jim -- James Smith, Computing Centre, University of Newcastle, ccjs@cc.nu.oz.au "Who's for dinner? Shall we draw lots, boys?" -- _Asterix at the Olympic Games_
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (10/06/89)
Really-From: James Smith <munnari!cc.nu.oz.au!CCJS@uunet.UU.NET> Path: cc!ccjs From: CCJS@cc.nu.oz (James Smith) Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa Subject: Re: Nice To Swallow Message-ID: <9588@cc.nu.oz> Date: 5 Oct 89 09:50:54 EST References: <8910010333.AA15672@GAFFA.MIT.EDU> <8910030221.AA06269@ucscc.UCSC.EDU> Organization: University of Newcastle Lines: 81 Stewart Evans writes: > It should be noted, in IED's attack on |>oug's competence, that the word > that he claims |>oug misheard was considerably less obvious from context > than "Night of the Swallow" would be to someone who knew Kate's work. What makes you think the writer was familiar with Kate's work? The dreaded interview: > Again I'm very fond of this because it's my latest and because > it represents *total* control, owing to the fact that I > produced it by myself. It's the hardest thing I've ever done > -- it was even harder than touring! The whole experience was > very worrying, very frightening but at the same time very > rewarding. > > It took a long time to do but I think there are some very > intense songs and the ones I like best of all are 'Nice To > Swallow', 'Houdini', and 'Get Out'. All in all, I was very > proud of this record. Note that not one but two song titles are misquoted, and there is no reason for misquoting the second one. Perhaps one could argue laziness on the part of the writer, or a typographical error, or even a desire for brevity on Kate's part, though I find that suprising. My opinion is that someone interviewed Kate, and someone else 'Ghost wrote' the interview from a bad tape recording. And that a third person prepared the discography. That's my opinion, though. Stewart continues: > However, it does bring yet another (admittedly far-fetched) possibility > to mind: that the interviewer mis-heard Kate, but assumed she was > making a pun or inside joke. However, given !>oug's citation of the > interviewer's comments about "The Dreaming", I'm willing to believe > that the quote was taken down correctly -- it now seems to me the > simplest explanation. To my mind the above does not show any great knowledge of _The Dreaming_ or indeed of Kate's work. And Doug says that this is the entire extent of the interview's comments on _The Dreaming_. > However, the fact that > the interviewer claimed to be familiar with Kate's work, and specifically > to have listened to The Dreaming many times, makes this possibility seem > less likely. Where does he say that he has listened to _The Dreaming_ many times? Or that he is familiar with Kate's work? > I think that > the only plausible source of error here is transcription error -- the two > phrases _sound_ much more alike than they _look_. > the simplest explanation > seems to be that Kate really said "Nice to Swallow", for whatever reason. The simplest explanation seems to be that Kate has been mistranscribed. Perhaps the volume was set too low, or someone coughed. I have yet to see any reference to Kate using this particular expression on any other occasion, or indeed of her connecting "Night of the Swallow" with fellatio in any manner whatsoever. Can anyone supply one? > both IED and |>oug are so stubborn > that there can be no hope of resolving this dispute short of placing them > in a locked room together and declare the survivor to be factually correct > in all things. The discussion does seem to be descending to the level of name calling. I don't mind long, witty diatribes, but a high anger level does take the enjoyment out of it for third parties. Jim -- James Smith, Computing Centre, University of Newcastle, ccjs@cc.nu.oz.au "Who's for dinner? Shall we draw lots, boys?" -- _Asterix at the Olympic Games_
CCJS@cc.nu.oz (James Smith) (10/08/89)
Doug Alan writes (in reply to me): >> Doug says that this is the >> entire extent of the interview's comments on _The Dreaming_. > I never said any such thing. No, you didn't. You said that was the entire extent of Kate's comments on the album. I apologise for misquoting you. > If "Nice to Swallow" is a mistake, it is clearly not the > mistake of the interviewer, but rather of the typesetters. Or of the editor. > Kate said "Get Out" because it is her > shorthand for "Get Out Of My House". Musicians almost often have > short names for their songs with long names. Has Kate ever used pet song names on other occasions? I do not remember having read anything in which she uses them. In fact, in most articles I have read she refers to _Get Out of My House_ as "Get Out of My House" and _Night of the Swallow_ as "Night of the Swallow." Can you cite an example? I'll ammend this. I'm sure she has on occasions used a song title like "Night of the Swallow" and then used the abbreviation "Night" to refer to it further on in the interview. Can you cite an example in which she has referred to a song by a pet name or abbreviation in a context where an uninformed reader would think that it was the song's actual title? Did the interviewer transcribe his/her own interview? If he did, did he supply an accurate, typewritten copy? Were the interviews for _Lady Killers_ done especially for it, or taken from other sources? How much care was taken in editing the book? The high level of spelling/typographical errors would not seem to indicate a high level of editorial expertise. Perhaps the editor prepared copy from a tape supplied by the interviewer, or from his handwritten notes. Could "N. Swallow" have been expanded to "Nice to Swallow"? I'm still not convinced that Kate actually said "Nice to Swallow." Greg Anderson writes: > Why does anyone assume the phrase "Nice To Swallow" refers to oral sex? > Would you have made the same assumption if the speaker had been a man? |>oug first used the reference to underline the fact that Kate was capable of sexual innuendo. > Come on people, *all* musicians have pet-names for their music, and they are > often comic and sometimes genuinely crude. But it beats calling everything > by it's *formal* name all the time. Is Kate different? Can't *she* have > silly names for her "serious work"? Of course she can. But have you ever read an article in which she used one? Besides, Kate is not a musician, she is a genius; the rules that apply to other musicians need not apply to her. :-) Jim -- James Smith, Computing Centre, University of Newcastle, ccjs@cc.nu.oz.au "Who's for dinner? Shall we draw lots, boys?" -- _Asterix at the Olympic Games_
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (10/08/89)
Really-From: James Smith <munnari!cc.nu.oz.au!CCJS@uunet.UU.NET> Path: cc!ccjs From: CCJS@cc.nu.oz (James Smith) Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa Subject: Re: Nice To Swallow Message-ID: <9614@cc.nu.oz> Date: 7 Oct 89 21:14:45 EST References: <8910042354.2230@munnari.oz.au> <8910050134.AA04292@GAFFA.MIT.EDU> Organization: University of Newcastle Lines: 69 Doug Alan writes (in reply to me): >> Doug says that this is the >> entire extent of the interview's comments on _The Dreaming_. > I never said any such thing. No, you didn't. You said that was the entire extent of Kate's comments on the album. I apologise for misquoting you. > If "Nice to Swallow" is a mistake, it is clearly not the > mistake of the interviewer, but rather of the typesetters. Or of the editor. > Kate said "Get Out" because it is her > shorthand for "Get Out Of My House". Musicians almost often have > short names for their songs with long names. Has Kate ever used pet song names on other occasions? I do not remember having read anything in which she uses them. In fact, in most articles I have read she refers to _Get Out of My House_ as "Get Out of My House" and _Night of the Swallow_ as "Night of the Swallow." Can you cite an example? I'll ammend this. I'm sure she has on occasions used a song title like "Night of the Swallow" and then used the abbreviation "Night" to refer to it further on in the interview. Can you cite an example in which she has referred to a song by a pet name or abbreviation in a context where an uninformed reader would think that it was the song's actual title? Did the interviewer transcribe his/her own interview? If he did, did he supply an accurate, typewritten copy? Were the interviews for _Lady Killers_ done especially for it, or taken from other sources? How much care was taken in editing the book? The high level of spelling/typographical errors would not seem to indicate a high level of editorial expertise. Perhaps the editor prepared copy from a tape supplied by the interviewer, or from his handwritten notes. Could "N. Swallow" have been expanded to "Nice to Swallow"? I'm still not convinced that Kate actually said "Nice to Swallow." Greg Anderson writes: > Why does anyone assume the phrase "Nice To Swallow" refers to oral sex? > Would you have made the same assumption if the speaker had been a man? |>oug first used the reference to underline the fact that Kate was capable of sexual innuendo. > Come on people, *all* musicians have pet-names for their music, and they are > often comic and sometimes genuinely crude. But it beats calling everything > by it's *formal* name all the time. Is Kate different? Can't *she* have > silly names for her "serious work"? Of course she can. But have you ever read an article in which she used one? Besides, Kate is not a musician, she is a genius; the rules that apply to other musicians need not apply to her. :-) Jim -- James Smith, Computing Centre, University of Newcastle, ccjs@cc.nu.oz.au "Who's for dinner? Shall we draw lots, boys?" -- _Asterix at the Olympic Games_
de0t+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Daniel S. Efran") (11/03/89)
If you say "Night of the Swallow" quickly (if, for example, you've already said it before in the same interview) it could easily come out "Nite o' th' Swallow" or even "Nite o' Swallow." Which sounds quite a bit like "Ny to Swallow" which sounds (if you try to fit it back into english) like "Nice to Swallow." If you don't believe me, try saying it yourself. It's not hard to imagine someone mishearing something Kate says--read anyone's attempts to figure out her lyrics--and perhaps thinking that she was making a joke. If you really care, that's a pretty reasonable hypothesis. Feel free to *not* discuss it further. ---Dan "The Sphere" Efran --or-- ---"Damn this fear" Efran