Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (06/01/90)
Really-From: Stephen Thomas <spt1@ukc.ac.uk>
The following is a transcript of an interview with Kate
recorded in 1982 a little after the release of _The Dreaming_.
The interview is the first of two that may be found on an
interview picture disc CD (catalogue number CBAK 4011, on
the Baktabak label), and takes approximately 20 minutes.
Text enclosed in [] are either comments, clarification or
parts where the transcription was unclear.
Transcription by Stephen Thomas.
Proofreading and corrections by Jeffrey Burka.
Additional thanks to Doug Alan.
The interview was recorded at a meal that Kate and the
interviewer (whose name is not mentioned) were sharing.
The recording quality is not particularly high (noticable
tape noise) and there is a lot of restaurant style noise in
the background. Kate also had a tendency to speak with her
mouth full.
K = Kate, I = interviewer.
K: I've just got back from Europe, and I only got back the
day before yesterday and I spent yesterday catching up
on all the stuff I got behind with when I was in Europe.
I: What were you doing there?
K: TV's and a little bit of radio, but mainly TV's, and
we did Italy and Germany.
I: And was that for the album?
K: Yes. It was indirectly for the album because out there
_The Dreaming_, the single, is still happening.
I: It has done better over there, has it?
K: Well, it's only just starting to happen, so we're doing
TV's to help it, and every show we did, we did _The Dreaming_.
So, you know, been testing to see how it does. But it
all helps the album, really, so I was into doing it from
that point of view. It's great, it's just very busy,
thats all.
I: I saw the video for _The Dreaming_ - they eventually did
get it on TV -
K: Yeah!
I: Very ... up to scratch, should I say, you know?
K: You liked it? [sounding very little-girlish]
I: Umm! [affirmative]
K: Oh, good.
I: It was similar to the stage set, you know - the dancers,
but it had the benefit of all the people in the background.
Where was it shot?
K: We shot it in [garbled - sounds like "uiks"], which is a video
studio in Wandsworth.
I: Oh, that was a studio? [surprise]
K: Yeah!
I: Crikey!
K: It was a very good set, wasn't it? Incredible set designers.
I: Where did you get the guys [designers] from?
K: We actually found those set designers through the director
I was using, through their production company.
I: Who did direct it?
K: It was Golden Dawn Productions, a guy called Paul Henry.
I: And what's going to be the next single that you're working on?
K: Well, we've done the video for the next one, which is _There
Goes A Tenner_.
I: Sorry?
K: _There Goes A Tenner_. [she was speaking with her mouth full]
I: What's that about? Is it about robbery?
K: Yeah, yeah.
I: What, sort of pickpockets in the East End, et cetera?
K: Yeah. It's about amateur robbers who have only done small
things, and this is quite a big robbery that they've been
planning for months, and when it actually starts happening,
they start freaking out - they're really scared and they're
so aware of the fact that something could go wrong that
they just freaked out, and paranoid and want to go home.
I: Really? Is this based on any kind of film?
K: [mouth full again] No. It's sort of all the films I've seen
with robberies in, the crooks have always been incredibly in
control and calm, and I always thought that if I ever did a
robbery, I'd be really scared, you know, I'd be really worried.
So I thought I'm sure that's a much more human point of view.
I: Yeah. You see I thought it might be based on a film. It was
on telly over Christmas. It was about a guy who was blackmailed
into doing a robbery and of course he really was scared, the
further he got involved in it and he had to carry it out.
But he was having the sleepless nights and stuff. [Kate
making interested-sounding noises throughout this - it was
obvious that she had not seen the film]
K: How did he get blackmailed? Because he'd murdered someone?
I: He'd been in prison a long time, and therefore when the robbery
took place the mafia bosses who were organising it knew they
had a stool pidgeon, and so they got him to do it.
K: Great. Yeah, a similar sort of thing, isn't it? I'm sure a
lot of these young kids, when they actually get into a situation
where it is not just a little job, they must be really scared.
I: Yeah. What made you think about it? I mean, have you run into
these East End types before? [humour]
K: No, no. I think it was much more the thing of watching a
lot of films, things like _Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid_,
you know. There are lots of films where robberies take place
and yet they glorify them, they always make the robbery
something very heroic and fun, risky and dangerous, but for
me it's something incredibly scary, something that has such
a potential of going wrong that it's not worth the risk, and
I don't think it's something that should be glorified at all.
I think it's something that should be made very real, so that
people realise it's not worth the effort - it's not something
that's fun, it's something that's just not worth the effort.
You'll end up in gaol for thirty years!
I: And is that the video that you were shooting in the train
carriage on the way up to Manchester, or practising for it?
K: That was the one we were practising for, yes, but only because
we didn't have any time, because that show came up at the last
minute and we were planning to rehearse all that night, so
instead of doing it in the studio, we did it in the back of
the train. [laughs] I couldn't see anything!
I: And how many of there were you in that guard's van?
K: There were just the three of us. They cleared it out for us -
it was really great of them actually. Each station we stopped
at there'd be various guards who would pull the window down and
go "alright, then?", because they were just checking us out.
It was great - they cleared out all the postings, chickens and
pigs, and all the other things.
I: You get some odd things, don't you?
K: So it was a completely empty carriage, it was beautiful. The
only thing was we could hardly hear the tape recorder, because
the noise was so bad, so we were more of less having to, sort
of, keep checking, and it was very hard to stay stationary at
a hundred and fifty miles an hour! [slight exaggeration there,
I think! British Rail would not go at 150mph even if they
could!]
I: And that's how that kind of dance somehow can get incorporated
into a film about robbery?
K: Yeah.
I: That should be interesting.
K: One of the bits in the song is all about waiting, and how the
first time they're just waiting for something to go wrong,
and the second time they're just waiting for the guy to blow
the safe up, because when he blows it up, there is so much that
could go wrong. It's a dance routine that's based on waiting -
it's just all these ideas with people waiting. [she a slight
accident with cutlery at that point, when she may have tried
to demonstrate part of the dance routine] And the rest of the
dancers are all acting out what the story says, really. It's
not so much a dance at all.
I: Do you think this one's going to be more successful than the
last one?
K: I don't know. [pensive] I don't know what to think about
the singles anymore.
I: Was it your idea for it to be a single?
K: What, _There Goes A Tenner_? Yes, I think I was in full
agreement with them [the record company]. But I think I've
reached a stage where, because _The Dreaming_ didn't work,
we all felt, especially from an airplay point of view that
in order to get airplay, which you need for a single to
work, we should go for one that was more obvious, and there
is no doubt that _There Goes A Tenner_ is one of the more
obvious songs.
I: Not that there are a lot on the album that are obvious.
K: No, so we're just going for this and seeing what happens.
I: It's quite a bold move to go in that kind of direction,
particularly when you've been out of the limelight for a year
or two. How sensible do you think it is, to make? It's
easily the least commercial step you've ever done, this album,
at a time when perhaps you should have been doing the most.
K: Yes. You see, from my point of view, although I've been out
of the limelight, from the last album all I was planning to
do was make another album as quickly as I could. But as soon
as I wrote the songs I realised that it was very different,
and all the time I do very much want to change my art, and
I do actually think that the direction I'm going in is away
from the commercial, well the obvious commercial. But I think
from my point of view it wasn't so much because I was out of
the limelight that I had to do something more commercial,
because at that time I wasn't actually out of the limelight,
I was just starting my next album, and I thought it was only
going to take me a couple of months, but before I know it
the whole thing has become much more involved, the songs are
much more involved, and I know that it's going to take me at
least six months to a year to get it the way I want. So by
the time it's finished, I've been out of the public's eye for
maybe ... apart from _Sat In Your Lap_, or course.
I: Which was a bit of a stopgap.
K: Yeah. In fact, it got to number eleven, and most people forget
about that, you see, they just forget that that ever happened,
so I've been completely out of the public's eye for two years.
I: Well, it's funny, actually, you should say _Sat In You Lap_,
because when that came out, and all those drums, I, thought
aha! she's trying to cash in on the old Adam Ant tribal drum
sound.
K: Yeah. You see, again, that was very annoying, because when
I'd actually started getting that together, Adam Ant wasn't
really happening.
I: Was Rolf Harris more of an influence even then? Things like
_Sun Arise_?
K: Yes, I'd wanted to work with Rolf for two or three years, but
when we did the last album, I had an idea for doing a song all
about Australia, which would have dijeridus and all this sort
of thing.
I: Really? What, for _Never For Ever_?
K: Yes, but I just didn't have the time to actually sit down and
write the song, and the same with Houdini. I had lots of ideas
about writing the song for Houdini, but I just couldn't, didn't
have the time to do it because I was actually making that
album, and already for that album I'd managed ... because at
that time I hadn't written _Army Dreamers_ yet, but I knew I
wanted to write a song about that, and it was during the album
that I wrote that song.
I: What, the false romanticism of the military, sort of thing?
K: What, the _Army Dreamers_? Yeah, the whole thing of kids
getting caught up in it, yeah. And it was only really 'cos
I'd only just managed to pull the song together in time that
that got on the last album. I really wanted to make that song
a few years ago, but I'm sure If I had have, it wouldn't have
sounded anything like it did on this album, so I'm glad that
it waited, really. I think a lot of the ideas for the stuff
on this album have, in fact, been things I wanted to do for
years, but just haven't been ready for it, or haven't had the
time. Because the whole tribal and ethnic thing has really
been happening within my family because of my brother Paddy
for, ten years? He's the one who's been gradually pulling me
that way. Even on the first album, there are a lot of unusual
instruments, hidden amongst the arrangements, which were very
much speaking from my side of things and my brother's, and I
think gradually, each time I've done an album, I've got more
control, and therefore been able to portray a lot more of what
I really mean to get across.
I: Oh, I see. I mean, it's a wild track, that Houdini. It
certainly gets a little bit manic.
K: Great.
I: What's it about?
K: It's all about Houdini from Mrs Houdini's point of view.
I: Sorry?
K: Mrs Houdini.
I: *The* Houdini, the escape artist?
K: That's right. He was married, and his wife was actually quite
involved with his whole life and his work, and she used to
help a lot with the tricks. And one of the things, which is
what the album cover's about, is before he went off into his
tank, when he was all tied up and everything, she would give
him a parting kiss, and as she kissed him, she passed him a
tiny little key, which he then later used when he was in the
water to unlock the chains. And as soon as I heard that imagery,
I just thought it was so beautiful, and so extraordinary. He
tied that into the whole side of his life where he was completely
obsessed with exposing mediums as frauds. I don't know if
you know anything about that.
I: No?
K: This was another side of him. His mother died, and he was
really, really close to her, like really close, and when she
died he needed desperately to try and communicate with her
through a medium, and he just came across all these people who
were basically making money out of the art of pretending to
speak to the dead, and when he realised all these people were
just basically ruining peoples' lives just to make some money he
decided to, in a very positive way, show that they were frauds
and tricksters. So he spent years of his life dedicating time
to finding any medium that said they were really authentic
and proving that they were completely false. So he spent
years of his life doing this, and ruining peoples' careers
and getting an awful lot of spiritualists up tight [she has a
wonderful way with words, sometimes!]. Before he died, he said
to his wife that "I'm going to die before you, and when I do,
I am going to try everything I can to try and come back through
a real medium, and there'll be one way you know it's me,
because all these tricksters are going to jump on the wagon
and say that I've come through and I'm going to use words that
only you and I know. It's a code, so you'll know that it's me,
and no-one else." So they made this code together, and when
he died she went round all the seances waiting for him to come
through. It's extraordinary really, because the thing happened
on the three levels, because apparently when he first got his
stage set together, he was more into magic and the same kind
of fraud, and he would do things where he would pretend he
was contacting the dead, and he would tell the audience these
messages from their dead people, and it was all a trick. Then
it happened to him through his mother, where they were all
tricking him because he wanted to contact his mother, and then
exactly the same thing happened to his wife after his death,
when they were all trying to trick her, that he had come
through. And it's just so extraordinary that really, the
whole thing with him escaping, chains and things, and then
trying to escape death, and this wierd sort of parallel of
contact and frauds. It's just an incredibly extraordinary
man and story.
I: How did you get into all this?
K: I just heard about it. I don't even remember how I first heard
about the big thing of exposing mediums. I mean, that was what
started it, because it was such a strange story, the fact that
he should be so obsessed with proving that they weren't real.
And then I started hearing how his wife was involved, because
I didn't even know he was married, and as soon as there was an
emotional contact with that bit - there was some woman who was
really in love with him through it all, it became a perfect
angle to write from, really. Especially when you thought about
that, even when he was dead, she spent all her time trying to
be with him. It's very strong stuff, I think. Beautiful.
I: The credits on the album. There's two mentioned, there's
Gordon Farrell. Who's that?
K: He was my singing teacher!
I: Really?
K: Yeah! Years ago I used to go every week for these lessons,
and really it was great 'cos he gave me loads of confidence
in singing, which is what I needed more than anything. I
just used to go to him half an hour a week, and by the end
of the year I felt a lot more confident in myself as a singer.
He worked wonders! And on Houdini, I don't know if you
noticed at the end there are these [she makes a noise that
sounds like the backing vocal that accompanies the very last
"You and I and Rosabel believe" lyric, just after the strings
section] and thats him.
I: So you gave him a mention from that point of view?
K: Yeah. He sang in it.
I: And the "Rosabel believe" bit?
K: Ah, well, thats actually the words that were the code, between
him and her.
I: Between Houdini and his wife?
K: Yeah, and they were the words that proved to her that it was
him, and only him.
I: And why do you put Del Palmer's name next to that?
K: Because he was the one who actually pretended to be him, in
the song. The idea in the song is that it was the voice of
Houdini, perhaps from the other side, and in fact it was
Del on the telephone. [laughs]
I: Oh, I see. Del played that part, he played that sort of role.
K: Yeah, it was on the end of a telephone - it was good. [laughs]
I: And Del's also the bass player on quite a few of the tracks.
K: Yes, he is, yes.
I: Because the funny thing is you've got Jimmy Bain, who was
in Rainbow, and is in Wild Horses. He seems to play on all
the crazier tracks.
K: I think, what I enjoyed again about this album was each track
has got a very different mood to it, really, or groups of
tracks have got different moods, and it was nice to use people,
almost specifically, for what they were very good at, and I
always think of Jimmy as being a really super rock'n'roll bass
player, which doesn't mean to be detrimental, because I
think its great, actually, because what those songs needed that
he was on was a very simple, very driving bass that was going
to keep the whole thing going, without being distracting, or
too full, and Jimmy was just right for that, really, so he
worked on the three tracks that I would definitely say they're
the rockiest, were the most up-tempo, perhaps the most
aggressive.
I: And did that have something to do with the fact he, with
Wild Horses, had had a contract with EMI?
K: Ah, you see I didn't even know he was with EMI. I knew he
was with Wild Horses, and I met him when I just bumped into
Phil Lynott in a recording studio.
I: Really, when was that?
K: This was at The Townhouse, and I was there to just look over
the studio, because that's where I wanted to work, and Phil
was actually going to give me a weekend of his time that he
wouldn't be using, so I just went in to check out that it
would be OK. And he was doing a really far-out vocal at
the time ...
I: Phil was?
K: Yeah, it was really beautiful.
I: For his solo album?
K: No, I think it was Thin Lizzy, because the band were there
with him, and Jimmy just happened to be there, and I just
sat next to him, and we were both going "oh, what a great
voice", and I just happened to hear that he'd been involved
in a couple of things that I liked, so it was quite a
coincidence, and it seemed just sort of right, really, to
use him for the rockier tracks. But like, there's a couple
of other tracks, right - _Pull Out The Pin_ - where I really
wanted a double-bass, so I had to get a double-bass player,
and I wanted it to be quite sort of funky without being
flippant or jazz rock, you know what I mean? And I knew
Danny Thompson, from having seen him work with John Martin,
and I really liked it, because with John's voice and his bass
it was really very free, and I found it very expressionful,
not sort of technical, very emotional double-bass playing, so
I thought he'd be perfect for that track. That happened with
quite a few musicians, where although I've more or less the
set band, there's really quite a few tracks where perhaps
guest people come in for this or that reason. I suppose that
in other ways it worried me at the start, because of, perhaps,
lack of continuity, but then because the songs were so
different from each other, I'm glad now that that's the way
it worked. But I did have some worries at the time, because
I was using three or four different people. I'm actually
quite pleased with the way it came out.
I: So you've not really got a band, as such, any more, have you?
K: No. That's actually quite a depressing thought.
I: Well, not really.
K: Well, no, I suppose not, because it leaves me nice and open.
I: You see what Kevin Rowland's doing with Dexy's Midnight Runners?
K: No?
I: He's got a central nucleus of about three, and the stage show
incorporates about eleven, and he can't keep eleven people on
wages, so he calls them up when he wants them.
K: So he just keeps the three.
I: And I think that really how rock's going to move. And the
people who aren't working with him, when they're not working
with him, they've got a reputation from him to go on and
do session work.
K: You see, I think I'm a bit like that, in that right from the
start I definitely carried two people with me all the way,
or three I suppose, as Pad has always been with me.
I: He's your brother, though, isn't he?
K: Yes, he is.
I: Is he a guitarist, or [plays] accordian?
K: No, he plays a lot of different instruments. Again, he really
is the one who's allowed me to use unusual instruments because
he happens to be able to play them, so it's great because
Pad's got this real knack of being able to pick up nearly
any instrument that's unusual and just have a feel for it.
I: Is he some kind of influence behind the dijeridu, for example?
K: Yes, I do think Pad actually started the initial interest in
me in unusual ethnic instruments, because for years he's been
interested in them, and building them. Like you'll find an
instrument that hasn't been made for hundreds of years, and
he'll build one. That's very stimulating.
I: How old is Pad? Is he younger or older than you?
K: No, he's older than me, yes, but I think he definitely has
been a strong stimulus in that area. Especially with the
instruments, because he's really brought to my notice a lot
of instruments that I'd never heard of before, but he makes
them familiar to me. I get to know the sound of them, and
then maybe one day when I'm writing a song, I think "Oh yeah,
that sound that Pad had, that'd be great in there."
[END]
--
Never give | Stephen Thomas
fate an | email: spt1@ukc.ac.uk
even chance | Telephone: +44 (0)227 764000 ext 3824
| Snail: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (06/01/90)
Really-From: Jeffrey C. Burka <jburka@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> Interview #2; 1985, concerning "Hounds of Love." Transcribed by Jeff Burka from limited edition CD picture interview disc CBAK 4011 on the Baktabak label. Proofread by Stephen Thomas. Interview takes approx. 20 mins. The interview was recorded in what sounds like a large room, based upon the echoes. The interviewer appears on the left track with Kate on the right. The interviewer is Australian, but he is never named. K = Kate. I = Interviewer. Comments in [] mady by transcriber Comments in <<>> made by proofreader I: When you launched the album, you had a laser show at the London planeterium (giggle) K: Yes. (laughing) Were you there? I: Yes, I was. Why did you do that? K: That was actually an idea of the record company's. They wanted to launch the album, which I was into, and I think it was their idea to use the laserium so that it would be something special. I thought what the guy did was incredibly impressive. I actually didn't realize that lasers could do quite so many different things. I: So you were in agreement with it. K: Yeah, it seemed like a good idea (laugh). I: Is "The Hounds of Love" [sic] your new album, is that an exorcism for you? Or not? K: An exorcism. In what way? I: Well, in the way of getting something out of your system. K: I think every album is. Every song, in a way, is channeling or releasing a form of energy. Yes, so every song is, really. I: But having done it now, do you feel content, as it were? K: Yes, I was very pleased when that album was finished. It took a long time and a lot of work, and I think, for what we were trying to do, it's quite pleasing. Yes. I: Why is it split into two sections, like "The Ninth Wave" and "The Hounds of Love" [sic]? K: One of the first ideas I had was to try a concept. I've, for some time, wanted to play with a piece of music that was more involved than, say, three to five minutes. And I had the idea a good few years ago, but I never really put it into action, so it was really the concept side that came first. And I was a bit worried that it wouldn't work, so until I'd written, say, four or five songs, I wouldn't really know if it was going to be successful. So, I thought it was wise to just use one side of the album, so there'd be like half an hour to play with rather than going for an hour's worth. And the other side, I thought it would be nice to balance with five or six completely different songs, not linked in anyway, that were perhaps more positive and up-tempo, so there was a nice balance between the two sides. I: Right. In Australian surfer mythology, it's always the seventh wave that's the big one. Y'know, like waves come in groups of seven. Why the ninth wave? K: That's very interesting. "The Ninth Wave"--I needed a title for the side. A lot of people think that the whole side was actually inspired by a Tennyson poem, but it was actually finding this quote, um, looking for a title for the whole thing; it was the last piece in the jigsaw. I was just looking through books and quotes, anything I could just to get an idea for a title, and that particular quote from the poem seemed quite appropriate, and his idea was that they worked in nines, rather than sevens. (laughs) I: When you write, do the words or the lyrics come first-- uh the words or the music--come first? K: It's different with each song. And sometimes you actually get a piece of music in your head that's got words with it--it's like they just sort of go together. But generally I'd say the music comes first, and the lyrics are worked in around that, or with it. I: "Cloudbusting," the current single, which is--where is it in the UK? K: Uh, twenty. I: Right. "Top of the Pops" and things like that--would you go onto that? K: It's something you consider, I mean, it's really the choice of can you perform it well, and would it really help the record. I mean, you do; it does help to have a successful record, it helps the album and it helps future projects, to finance them, et cetera. I mean, I do depend on the success of each record to be able to do the next one. But I think with some songs it's very difficult to perform them on television and make them look good and to really do justice to, performing. I think it's something there should always be a lot of thought behind. And, when you put such a lot of workin to a video, which a lot of people do nowadays, it's sad that you can't get that shown more, and that you have to go on and perform. There is no choice; it's a shame. I: "Cloudbusting" has a got a very grand video, I think. How did you come by Donald Sutherland? K: We were very lucky. We had a friend who made the contact for us. We sent him the script and I talked to him and he was very interested, which was fantastic [kind of giggling-with a hint of awe or "what incredible luck!" (various interpretations of her tone of voice] , and just happened to have the four days that we needed to shoot the video in. He was free for that time. It all seemed to come together so well and so quickly. I: But why Donald Sutherland? K: He was our first choice. I'm a big fan of him as an actor. And he really was perfect for the part. There couldn't have been anyone better--he looked so right. I: Why is it about a father and son--why write "Cloudbusting" K: I found a book, nearly ten years ago now, on a shelf. I didn't know anything about the writer. I just pulled it off the shelf, it looked interesting, and it was an incredible story. It's written by Peter Reich, and it's called _A Book of Dreams_. It's about himself as a child, through his eyes as a child, looking at his father and their relationship. It's incredibly beautiful, it's very, very emotive, and very innocent because it's through a child's eyes. His father was a very respected psychoanalyst, and besides this, something that features in the book, he made machines called 'cloudbusters' that could make it rain, and him and his father used to go out together and make it rain; they used to go 'cloudbusting.' And, unfortunately, the peak in the book is where his father is arrested, taken away from him; he was considered a threat. So, suddenly, his father is gone, so it's a very sad book as well. I: The machine that features in the video--what's become of that now? K: Well, it's at the moment resting in a garage not far from here. (laughs) I: Do you think that "The Hounds of Love" [sic] is much more controlled than the previous album? K: Controlled. (pensive) I think it's probably more constant. The last album was dealing with a lot of very different things, and very different places, different atmospheres, in tracks maybe next to each other. I think there's more a sense of a theme on this album. Obviously on the second side, but even on the first side, although they're separate songs, I think they are still, they have a flavor that's consistent. I: So you'd say it was more consistent than the previous album? (you idiot! She just _said_ that!) K: Yes, I think there's more sense of flow from track to track. But I was very happy with the last album, it was certainly a mark for us. I: Are there any things that you've done so far which you look back on and you cringe at? K: Yes, lots of things. (laughs) I: Like? K: Too many to mention, and I think most people do tend to look at themselves very critically <<Oh, well evaded!>>. I think it's quite productive to be like that, though, or perhaps you don't feel nervous enough about what you're doing next! I: Are you a perfectionist, then? K: I don't know if that's a word that is a real word, if you know what I mean, because you can never make anything perfect. You can strive for it, but I think if you continue to strive for it you would never get anywhere. I think you have to recognize a point where things are as good as they can be, within the limitations, before they start going off again. It's definitely a peak and then it can go off. So I think you just hopefully have to recognize where more effort will make it better, but when to stop. I: Who do you use as your person to tell you when to stop, or is it just something you know within yourself? K: It's almost like the music itself dictates it. When a track is sounding right, when it's ready, it _is_, you can just feel it. And then you mix it. That's when you sort of play with all the little raw edges, but you just know when everything's finished recording. I: With "Running Up That Hill," the last single that's here in Britain and is just happening in Australia--you mention the line "I could make a deal with God." What do you mean by that? K: Well, it's about a relationship between a man and a woman. They love each other very much, and the power of the relationship is something that gets in the way. It creates insecurities. It's saying if the man could be the woman and the woman the man, if they could make a deal with God, to change places, that they'd understand what it's like to be the other person and perhaps it would clear up misunderstandings. You know, all the little problems; there would be no problem. I: A perfect world, then. K: Yes. Idealistic. But then I think a lot of art is that. It's not necessarily real always. I: How do you feel about being, shall we say, marketed like in the pop music world, when it seems like you obviously put a lot more care into things than your average three minute pop song person? K: I don't know if I feel like I'm marketed. I think you make an album and the outlets for it--there are no other outlets for it, really. A lot of things go into that chart that are very diverse. It's a very versatile chart, and more so than the name suggests, really. I: With "The Ninth Wave," it's all about a man drowning. Was that, perhaps, inspired by the aircraft that crashed into the, uh, into a frozen river in the States. There was quite a big news story about that a few years ago. Do you remember that? There was the case of the man--they called him "the man in the water"--who kept on going back and dragging people out from underneath the ice. K: No, I didn't hear about that. It sounds really interesting and horrific. I: I just thought that might... K: (interupting) A plane went under the ice? I: Yeah, no, a plane actually crashed and hit a bridge over the road and all the people were spilled into the water and there was one particular man that they had TV film of; he just kept going backwards and forwards and dragging people out, and eventually he didn't come out. He was like, what they called "the man in the water." I just wondered if that was... K: (interupting again) Incredible. I: ...at all inspiring. K: No. I: You hadn't known that all before? (laughing, along with Kate) Well, there goes that! Okay, then, why then all the ninth wave and water and ice. K: I think it was an idea I probably got a few years ago of someone being in the water for the night, and hadn't really tried it until this album. It's hard to say where it came from. I can only pinpoint certain war films as imagery that would suggest it, things like _The Cruel Sea_, those kind of old war films, where the people were being cast into the water, having really been through kind of a heavy experience already. And the thing of actually launching from that, so that's the basis of the body in the water, but then the head travels off as the night goes on. I: Would you contemplate turning that into some kind of visual images? K: Yes, it's something I will seriously be thinking about. But it's the feasibility of it, especially in terms of time and money. So I don't know. When all the promotion is at an end, by the end of this year, I'll be able to sit down and think what's the next thing to do. I: You don't think that making a video image of it will perhaps spoil people's own idea of what they've got of it? K: Yes, I think it probably could! (laughing) I: Have you got people in mind to do that? K: No, that's really why I need to have space to think about it. All this promotion has to be done; I have to have all the videos made before I can think about it. You really need to direct attention into something like that. I: There's lots of credits on the album to comic characters and people involved in comedy. Why them? K: Because in some way they've been involved or helped, either with the album or something connected to it, and it was a way of saying thank you. <<deliberately uninformative?>> I: They didn't all come and give you handclaps and all that. (laughs) K: (laughing) No, I'm afraid not. I wish they had! I: You had success at an early age. Do you feel you've missed out on anything? K: No I don't, really, I'm glad that it happened so early, because it's enabled me to be able to do what I'm doing now. For instance, being able to build our own studio, and having had that much more experience behind me because I started younger. No, I think I'm very lucky. I: Having built your own studio, are you like a gadget freak? Do you like all the latest toys, electronic toys, or not? K: Yes, I think everyone likes new toys. And it's really getting the time to look around, and also the money, of course, is the big thing, to get new equipment. I: "Mother Stands for Comfort"--have you got a protective family? K: I think it's quite a natural instinct for families to be protective. I: Yeah, but what about you? K: I think they're of the norm. I think they're as all protective of each other. I: Was that song written for your mother? K: No, not at all. I mean, she's a wonderful mother, but the song's dealing with a different energy, really. I mean it's about a mother and her strong maternal, protective instincts, but it's dealing with some--a son who's committed a bad crime. And to her, her instincts overrule what's right or wrong. I think that's what's interesting--it's how some mothers will actually overrule their sense of morality because they love their son or their child so much. I: Have you ever been in a similar kind of situation, where a reason goes out the window? K: No, certainly not on that level! But I have read reports, heard of things--through news, etc.-- in the past, where that has happened. I: Do songs come easily to you, or not? K: No. Some do, but the majority is something I have to work for very hard. It's extremely frustrating, but it's worth it to get something in the end. Something I got hooked on really quite young. Just playing with the piano and the whole excitement of actually creating something out of nothing. I: Reading the press that's come out recently, it's mentioned again your love of people like Roxy Music and David Bowie. Are there any more contemporary people that you like? K: I don't listen to very much contemporary music at the moment, and I think my love of people like David Bowie and Bryan Ferry --I was normally making the point of what a big influence those two have been. They're true originals, and there are so many people mimicking their style of voice, they're style of song structures, etcetera, and I think they should be credited for their influences. I think Peter Gabriel's had a very big influence, too, on a lot of people. His third album was very influential, I think. I: He's got a new one coming out. K: Yes! I: Have you heard any of it? K: No, I haven't. I: I've heard a couple of tracks; very good. K: Great. [I find this exchange interesting for the fact that since this interview was in '85, the album in question is _So_, which, of course, contains "Don't Give Up," a duet with Kate herself!] I: Yes, it's excellent. When you're not presenting a public eye, you're like a very private person. Nobody can seem to get through to you, as it were. Do you feel the need to have a certain amount of isolation? K: Yes. I: Is that essential to your creative feelings? K: Yes, absolutely. They're two very separate things, two completely different energies, and I can only really concentrate if that's all I have to do. If there's other things to do besides make an album, they just become distractions. I: You talk about energies quite a lot. Do you subscribe to a particular theory or religion or anything like that. K: (laughing) Subscribe to a monthly manual. I: You know what I mean. K: No, I don't, really. But I do think certain things help, like I think trying to be positive about things is a very helpful thing. It can just stop you getting down, and to try and enjoy things if you can. But I don't have any kind of religious beliefs, really. I: Do you have a favorite song that you've recorded? K: It's very much a love/hate relationship I think any author has with the thing. But there are ones that you're always quite glad you managed to achieve, especially when they were difficult. I was quite pleased with "Houdini" and "Breathing" and "Running Up That Hill." I: Do you ever feel that you're going to run out of creative energy? K: I think if you feel that you have to take a break and I think quite often it's like a battery that needs charging up. As long as you keep the energy topped up, you should be able to keep going. I: If somebody asks you to do a benefit concert, or if you'd been asked to do Live Aid, would you have done that? K: Yes, I would. I don't think there's anyone that would have said no, unless they had to. A really important reason. I: Even though you hadn't actually performed live for a long, long time, you would have still done it? K: It's hard to say. I wasn't asked, but I would have said yes, I'm sure. I: Okay. I think that's about it. Oh! One more thing. Do you follow world affairs, with what's going on? K: I don't follow it very--I can't think of the word! What's the word? Ooooooh! Ohhh! <<doesn't transcribe well, does it? It sounds more like a strained "uhhhhhh!" to me!>> I: Avidly? K: Avidly is quite good. Yeah, I don't really have that much time. I watch the television; I catch the news. That's really all I get--I don't read newspapers--watch current affair programs. I: OK, good, thank you. & -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "On the outskirts of nowhere | |jburka@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | on the ringroad to somewhere, | |jburka@amber.ucs.indiana.edu | on the verge of indecision..." --Fish |