Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/03/90)
Really-From: katefans@world.std.com (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago) Chris here, Loren Petrich wrote: >> >>There is a whole newsgroup, rec.music.gaffa, devoted to Kate Bush and >>related subjects, and I think that Madonna and Kate Bush have a heck >>of a lot in common. I have long suspected that Kate Bush is the >>Madonna of the alternative-rock set; if you think that comparison is >>unwarranted, please explain why in reasoned, non-flaming words. and Jon Drukman replied: > > eh. there was an article in _homeground_ (Kate fan mag, for you > non-gaffans) of all places, a while ago, comparing Kate to Madonna (in > flattering terms, even.) the main thesis in the article was that > they're both "originals" and "uncompromising." Point sort of taken, > but the main difference is that Madonna's uncompromising originality > goes into her image whereas Kate's goes into her music. At the risk of drawing fire, I'd like to suggest that Siouxsie Sioux would be a better alternative-rock equivilent to Madonna. I've never seen a Kate "wanna-be", but black coifed, black clad, pale skinned Siouxsie-wanna-be's litter the streets of this fair city. I love Siouxsie and the Banshees' music, but have little love for the way it is consumed. Kate has managed to avoid becoming an "image product" in the way that Siouxsie, and to a far greater extent, Madonna, have become. Oddly enough, it was jsd's frothing-at-the-mouth, and claiming that Madonna was the "Anti-Kate" that caused me to seriously re-consider Ms. Ciccione's music. I share enough musicial taste with Jon to take some of what he says seriously, but believe his more obnoxious qualities and tastes are a result of believing what he reads in the British music papers. So, figuring that any seriously deranged opinions from him may be lifted directly from the pages of NME, I've had to use some of "his/NME's" statements as a reverse barometer. Not that this is very reliable mind you. But if he claims Madonna is the spawn of Hell, she may be quite good. I picked up "Like a Prayer" and listened to it on a Walkman, free of radio over- exposure and MTV BS. Taken on it's own merits it is very good. The Anti-Kate would not have put "Act of Contrition" on this album. Fact is only one song on this album is even slightly concerned with sex. The "Madonna/Whore" syndrome is definitely at work here (no dumb joke intended). The worst reviews of _The Sensual World_ resulted from the reviewers apparent belief that any woman singing about sex must be an airhead. This seems to be deeply ingrained in American society. Kate recieved a lot of attention following _The Kick Inside_ that had nothing to do with her music and a much to do with her breasts. She didn't like it then, and probably still dosen't. As a mental exercise, imagine that Kate dressed like Madonna and acted like Madonna but still made the same music. Would you have been able to get past the image? Are you able to deal with a woman as a sexual _and_ intellectual being? I'll confess that when I first discovered Kate's music on TKI I fantasized about her, but as I grew older and (hopefully) matured, I discovered that it was an isometric exercise; it's a strain and it gets you nowhere. That adolesent attachment faded and was replaced by a more profound and lasting respect based on the music, as well as admiring her as a beautiful woman. Forming relationships with real live women helped too. Chris Williams of Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago katefans@world.std.com
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/03/90)
Really-From: How Gone Is Ron <jsd@gaffa.MIT.EDU> >Chris here, >Oddly enough, it was jsd's >frothing-at-the-mouth, and claiming that Madonna was the "Anti-Kate" >that caused me to seriously re-consider Ms. Ciccione's music. I share >enough musicial taste with Jon to take some of what he says seriously, >but believe his more obnoxious qualities and tastes are a result of >believing what he reads in the British music papers. 1) I *never* froth. I foam. Important distinction, young Christopher. 2) I never claimed that Madonna was the AntiKate. That would've been |>oug, who believes that Madonna has never recorded ANYTHING worth listening to ever. Personally, I think she's got one or two quite fine songs in there somewhere - not bad for five or six albums worth of material, eh? (fnarr fnarr) The fact is, there are many worse acts than Madonna around right now. Paula Abdul and New Kids On The Block are the worst offenders in my mind right now. Remember Ciccone Youth and "Into The Groovy"? A quite fine parody. You couldn't do such things to Paula Abdul and the Nude Dweebs because they already are self-parody, as far as I'm concerned. Oh, but they can DANCE... (snort of derision). You're so quick to condemn me Chris, you just never bother to check the facts. I bet we have a lot more in common than either of us would be willing to publicly admit. 3) I believe everything I read. It's not just the British music press. The printed word has an authority about it that I find very seductive. (This is sarcasm, folks.) >So, figuring that >any seriously deranged opinions from him may be lifted directly from >the pages of NME, I've had to use some of "his/NME's" statements as a >reverse barometer. Not that this is very reliable mind you. But if he >claims Madonna is the spawn of Hell, she may be quite good. The only time I ever read NME is when Joe Turner buys it. I'm a Melody Maker kind of guy, myself. Get a clue! Their interviews are much better. The Stud Brothers interview with Revolting Cocks is a classic. And c'mon, their Kate interview walked all over NME's, even if a lot of it was self-serving. >I picked up >"Like a Prayer" and listened to it on a Walkman, free of radio over- >exposure and MTV BS. Taken on it's own merits it is very good. The >Anti-Kate would not have put "Act of Contrition" on this album. Fact >is only one song on this album is even slightly concerned with sex. Yeah, but Madonna uses sex to sell songs that aren't even about sex. Take a look at the Like A Prayer video. What's on display here, kiddies? Hey, it's fine with me. I'd rather watch Madonna's chest flapping around than any of those terrible pop metal acts that MTV has suddenly taken under its wing. +---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ---------------------+ | | |\ | jsd@gaffa.mit.edu | ZIK ZAK - We make everything you need, | | \|on |/rukman | -Fight The Power- | and you need everything we make. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+