Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (11/09/90)
Really-From: PMANCHESTER@ccmail.sunysb.edu Jon Drukman (jsd@gaffa.mit.edu) justly notes, citing a paragraph I wrote: > I'm all for heresy, but I'm dead set against factual errors. > >> * Bad sign: for the FIRST TIME in the History of the World, a >> Kate Bush album was accompanied by only THREE videos. It has always >> been four. > > From TKI: Wuthering Heights and The Man With The Child In His Eyes. (2) (Wrong: from TKI also Them Heavy People, making (3)) > From Lionheart: Wow and Hammer Horror. (2) > From Never For Ever: Babooshka, Army Dreams and Breathing. (3) (Wrong: from NFE also Delius (Song of Summer), making (4)). > The Dreaming and Hounds Of Love had four videos. (Agreed). I've used up my fair share of bandwidth for a while, but Drukman is right that I was a little glib with the facts about the number of videos from each of Kate's albums. But I'm not all that wrong, either, and he seems to have been a little loose in his own counts too. I was thinking not so much in terms of videos proper, but of available visualizations, choreographical realizations of songs. I had immersed myself in the tape from the Hammersmith Odeon show before I even owned TKI and LH, and tend to count songs I've "seen." In that sense there are five from TKI, four from LH. From another angle, LH is really a kind of appendix to TKI, so leaving Hammersmith aside, one could say there are five videos from that one extended creative effort. But are there four 'real' videos from TKI; no, three. From LH? No, two. So I'm wrong. But Drukman's wrong about TKI and NFE himself. Here's the list I had in mind: THE KICK INSIDE (5) LIONHEART (4) The Man With the Child in His Eyes Wow Wuthering Heights Hammer Horror Them Heavy People <Live at Hammersmith Odeon> <Live at Hammersmith Odeon> Don't Push Your Foot on the Heartbreak Moving Oh England My Lionheart Feel It James and the Cold Gun NEVER FOR EVER (4) THE DREAMING (4) Babooshka Sat in Your Lap Delius (Song of Summer) Suspended in Gaffa Army Dreamers There Goes a Tenner Breathing The Dreaming ............................................................................ "C'mon, we all sing!" pmanches@sbccmail (BITNET) pmanchester@ccmail.sunysb.edu (INTERNET) Peter Manchester, Religious Studies, SUNY at Stony Brook, NY 11794-3725
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (11/10/90)
Really-From: Jon Drukman <jsd@gaffa.MIT.EDU> >Really-From: PMANCHESTER@ccmail.sunysb.edu >Jon Drukman (jsd@gaffa.mit.edu) justly notes, citing a paragraph I wrote: >> I'm all for heresy, but I'm dead set against factual errors. >> >>> * Bad sign: for the FIRST TIME in the History of the World, a >>> Kate Bush album was accompanied by only THREE videos. It has always >>> been four. >> >> From TKI: Wuthering Heights and The Man With The Child In His Eyes. (2) >(Wrong: from TKI also Them Heavy People, making (3)) *bzzzt* Technical Foul: the video for Them Heavy People was released in conjunction with the "Kate Bush On Stage" live EP/doublepack 7"/whatever. On "The Singles File" video, you'll notice that it comes after the two videos from "Lionheart." >> From Lionheart: Wow and Hammer Horror. (2) >> From Never For Ever: Babooshka, Army Dreams and Breathing. (3) >(Wrong: from NFE also Delius (Song of Summer), making (4)). Another technical foul: this was created for a TV special, and is not an "official" video (ie: you can't buy it anywhere except from bootleggers). If we were to allow this, we'd have to allow Chris' "Infant Kiss" video as well, and any other homebrew compilation. > I've used up my fair share of bandwidth for a while, but Drukman is >right that I was a little glib with the facts about the number of videos >from each of Kate's albums. But I'm not all that wrong, either, and he >seems to have been a little loose in his own counts too. Loose? ME? Never! And, that's *MR* Drukman, bucko. > I was thinking not so much in terms of videos proper, but of available >visualizations, choreographical realizations of songs. I strongly object strongly to this playing loose and free with facts. You would have to count the Wogan appearance of Running Up That Hill as a separate "realization" for HOL, which you neglected to do. You would have to count the Harty (?) appearance of Experiment IV (pretty darn cool). You're just going to paint yourself into a corner this way. I think there's a TKI song on those early Dutch films that isn't on your list below. You just don't have all the instances at your fingertips, and using "number of choreographical realizations" (all of a sudden it isn't "videos"!) to prove a point about Kate's decline is a dubious technique at best, and horribly misleading at worst. >From another angle, LH is really a kind of appendix to TKI, I'm not even going to touch this one! > But are there four 'real' videos from TKI; no, three. From LH? No, >two. So I'm wrong. But Drukman's wrong about TKI and NFE himself. Here's >the list I had in mind: I was NOT wrong about NFE. I'm NEVER wrong about ANYTHING. And don't you or anyone else ever forget it! >THE KICK INSIDE (5) LIONHEART (4) >The Man With the Child in His Eyes Wow >Wuthering Heights Hammer Horror >Them Heavy People <Live at Hammersmith Odeon> > <Live at Hammersmith Odeon> Don't Push Your Foot on the Heartbreak > Moving Oh England My Lionheart > Feel It > James and the Cold Gun Just one quick question - why are you listing six "performances" under TKI but only counting five? Oh, and how are we ever going to reconcile "Egypt"? She did that as part of the Tour Of Life, you know. Presumably there was choreography for it. I think we should stick to "official promo clips." It simplifies matters greatly. Wow, it's been ages since I've gotten into a pointless and hostile debate about katefaKTs! Somebody help me, I'm having flashbacks... -- +---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ---------------------+ | | |\ | jsd@gaffa.mit.edu | ZIK ZAK - We make everything you need, | | \|on |/rukman | -Fight The Power- | and you need everything we make. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+