neff@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.COM (Dave Neff) (03/27/91)
I just don't get it ...
In this newsgroup it seems that Kate is more than a mortal, she is a
venerated deity. People testify of "how they found Kate" as if she
were some sort of religious conversion. Some of her music ("The Dreaming"
in particular) is the "Platonic" ideal/archetypical album of which
all other albums are but shadows of this ultimate reality.
I do think Kate is talented. Her creativity is in the same league as
people like Peter Gabriel and Bryan Ferry (and a few others I could
list). But she is but a talented, mortal artist. In fact, I would
doubt that even her works will be "immortal" (unlike those of the
classical masters). I doubt that 200 years from now anyone will be
listening to Kate or Peter Gabriel, or most of our current rock greats.
There may be some contemporary artists whose work endures for
centuries (perhaps some of the Beatles material). I like Kate's music.
I like Peter Gabriels music. I like Bryan Ferry's music. Sometimes
the music is quite moving. But I don't venerate or deify any of these
artists or their works.
Is there something about Kate being a woman (and an attractive one at
that) which adds to this tendancy of some (generally men may I add) who
venerate her person and material? I just don't get is ...
Dave Neff
neff@hpvcfs1.HP.COMjpyburn@MAESTRO.MITRE.ORG (John Pyburn) (03/28/91)
Hear hear ! (At least on the deification). Personally, I don't think it is related to her beauty, just a sign of a very talented artist who appeals to a relatively small group of people. I have seen the same treatment given to early Genesis (with Gabriel) , other early art-rock bands, and Joan Armatrading, to name a few. Personally, I think you do a disservice to the person who is also an artist to think of them in anything but human terms. However, as a new reader of "gaffa", I must say that some of the nicest thoughts and people I've run across on the net seem to reside here, so, do what you will. Question -- I saw a collection of four singles packaged as a Fan Club Pack with a "message from Kate" and a version of "Let It Be" live by Kate "and friends". Anybody tell a neophyte like me what this is ?
dwelch@tzone.UUCP (Dan Welch) (03/28/91)
In article <2770002@hp-vcd.HP.COM> Dave Neff writes: >In this newsgroup it seems that Kate is more than a mortal, she is a >venerated deity. People testify of "how they found Kate" as if she >were some sort of religious conversion. Some of her music ("The Dreaming" >in particular) is the "Platonic" ideal/archetypical album of which >all other albums are but shadows of this ultimate reality. > I can't speak for anyone else, but this is my point of view. For me, a lot of her music (and an especially good example of this is _The_Ninth_Wave_) is very moving. Listening to it provokes emotions and thoughts within me that NO other musician (classical or otherwise) does -- a very intense, highly personal reaction. "The Morning Fog" makes me cry when I hear it, with sadness or joy depending upon what I am thinking of at the time. You might say that, yes, it is a religious experience. Is this so hard to believe? The tone of your paragraph above seems to scoff at those to whom her music means so much, when "in reality" a "real" religious experience is more important. (Personally, I scoff at people who claim to have had a "real" religious experience, but that is beside the point here.) But what defines "religious"? Technically, I suppose, it would mean "anything relating to a set of beliefs concerning a single or a group of supernatural beings." But "religion" has come to mean anything which changes your life, or affirms it, or is central to the core of self that defines who you are. In this sense, Kate's music is very much a religious experience, for me. She has a unique ability to write music that transcends the normal boundaries of note and sound; to the extent where I don't even consider a lot of it to be "songs". When I hear her, I don't just hear music -- I see visions, and when I close my eyes, the music takes form in my mind, sometimes soothing, sometimes beautiful, sometimes frightening, but always real, immediate, and personal. I don't participate much in the debates over the meanings of her songs, or how tall she is, or her life's history. These things are unimportant. Kate is not God, but her music is. >I do think Kate is talented. Her creativity is in the same league as >people like Peter Gabriel and Bryan Ferry (and a few others I could >list). But she is but a talented, mortal artist. In fact, I would >doubt that even her works will be "immortal" (unlike those of the >classical masters). I doubt that 200 years from now anyone will be >listening to Kate or Peter Gabriel, or most of our current rock greats. This may be true, but that does not lessen the validity of any of it. Rock music, by its very nature, probably will not survive intact into succeeding centuries. It is music for, and by, the young; iconoclastic, rebellious, potent, but limited. In contrast, "classical" music survives not due to its superior content, but because it does not speak to one ever-changing group, but to everyone, and each person hears it in his own way. Of course, I think that Kate's music WILL survive, for that very reason. >But I don't venerate or deify any of these artists or their works. Well, I don't think that anyone REALLY thinks Kate is the Almighty (except maybe IED :^) ). But it's just a convenient way of referring to her, one that leaves no doubt to anyone of our opinions concerning her. >Is there something about Kate being a woman (and an attractive one at >that) which adds to this tendancy of some (generally men may I add) who >venerate her person and material? I just don't get is ... Actually, and again just for me, this is backwards. It is because of Kate that I began to hold female artists in general in much higher regard than male ones. I didn't even see a really clear picture of her until I was already in love with _The_Whole_Story_. I guess the first glimpse I had of her true sensuality was the _Lionheart_ cover. Kate does not rule my life, but she does form an important piece of it. Without beauty, ugliness, and emotion, life would be pretty dull. Her gift lies in the fact that she portrays the world as it is -- no prettying up, no cheesy happy endings, and yet, it always comes through as "this is good, this is right". The world isn't perfect, but who wants it to be? ----- / \ Daniel Welch | | Tandem Computers, Inc. \ / Austin, TX, USA --+-- halley!tzone!dwelch@cs.utexas.edu | ----+---- | / I should have been home hours ago, but I'm not here ... |< | \
stevev@GREYLADY.UOREGON.EDU (Steve VanDevender) (03/28/91)
Dave Neff asks why so many people here deify Kate Bush, and goes on to say a few things that will probably get IED to calling for his smelling salts again. Certainly, I doubt I am capable of going so far as to claim Kate as my religion, but then again I'm a dedicated atheist. However, there are a variety of reasons for the almost cloying amount of devotion seen here. First and foremost, the Love-Hounds mailing list attracts the creme-de-la-creme of Kate Bush fans. The people who are most dediKaTed are the ones most likely to post. People who think of Kate Bush as just another artist may read this group for amusement or ignore it entirely. Second, it is to a certain degree KonvenTional to speak of Kate Bush in highly elevated terms here, often in exaggeration of one's realistic level of devotion. Finally, Kate is the greatest singer/songwriter/composer who has ever lived, so why shouldn't we deify her? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Ahem. There certainly may be something in Kate being very attractive that causes an unusual level of interest from male fans. Notice, though, that female fans are pretty evenly represented here, especially considering how male-dominated computer user tends to be. For me, much of the attraction lies in that unlike most performers of any sort, Kate is intelligent and reserved while also extremely good at portraying complex emotion and femininity. I don't admire Kate because she's really cute--I admire her because she's a musical genius _and_ incredibly cute as a major side benefit. I also can't seem to stop listening to Kate or get tired of her material--like many people here, I seem to be the sort with a few well-played albums instead of a large collection of rarely-played stuff. I mean really, _The Kick Inside_ has to have some of the best make-out music ever written. (Will I get flamed for this statement? Tune into tomorrow's edition of _Love-Hounds Digest_ . . . ) Steve VanDevender stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu "Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population. Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."