Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (07/03/89)
Really-From: Clemens Dorfner <cdorfner@faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Hi Love-Hounds, Because of some problems with our newsfeed, i missed some articles of rec.music.gaffa. So i don't know, whether my letter arrived in time, and i'm on the list for KT's tape, or the project has been cancelled. Please e-mail or just send the tape ! Clemens Dorfner
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (07/09/89)
To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag Deb Wentorf writes: > IED, if you want further donations to the cause, I do have your home > address, and I would be more than happy to send you a check for $6.50, > if that's what most people are donating. NO! IED thanks you very sincerely, Deb, for your very generous impulse, but _no_, please do _not_ send any more money to IED! The tape project is now officially closed, and that includes the flowers project, too. But don't worry, there is more than enough money for a dozen white roses amid ivy plus a list of all 140-odd gift-givers. This is because most of the people who sent extra money in their orders have now notified IED that they will be happy to allow the excess to go toward the flowers purchase. So thanks, thanks, thanks everyone. Incidentally, if there _is_ a Love-Hound in the UK who would be willing to get an estimate from a florist for the _domestic_ cost of such a gift--preferably someone quite close to the Orpington/Lewisham/ Welling area (i.e. just south of London, in Kent)--IED would greatly appreciate such information. He isn't entirely sure that doing the bouquet from inside England would really save all that much money, since IED (who has the money) would have to pre-imburse the English L-H via international money order or something, and there's a hefty sur-charge for that service, as well. But IED has a total of about $80.00 to work with, so however many extra white roses (above and beyond one dozen) with ivy intertwined can be obtained with, say, 40 Pounds Sterling from inside England would be worth it. Remember to figure in the cost of delivery to East Wickham Farm on Katemas morning (a Sunday, which may necessitate higher delivery rates), and also the cost (either in money or in personal labor) of creating a list of all 140 or so signators to the card. And thanks again in advance, should anyone be willing and able to help out with this info-gathering process. Also incidentally, at least one newish Love-Hound has asked, "Why _white_ roses, and why the ivy?" or words to that effect. The answer is to be found in a relatively obscure Kate Bush song, the b-side of the _Running_Up_That_Hill_ single. The song is called _Under_the_Ivy_, and is (debatably, of course) one of the greatest pieces of recorded sound in the history of mankind. In it Kate sings: "Go into the garden,/Under the ivy,/Under the leaves./Go right to the rose./Go right to the white rose/For me." (Of course this could alternatively read "White Rose", but that's another story...) Hence the idea to send Kate white roses and ivy for Katemas. We may be relatively certain that Love-Hounds is neither the first nor the last entity to send such a token of love and affection to Kate, but it's still a thoroughly appropriate and sincere way to show our feelings for her on Katemas, so why not? > I only have one request, though....somehow, I would like to see just >what our purchase looks like before it gets sent off to Kate, so if you >manage to get a picture, I'll give you my address so you can send me a >copy?? Sorry, Deb, but IED doesn't see exactly how he will be able to produce a photo of the actual bouquet, since it will be made up in the UK with UK flowers by a UK florist. This will be true whether the order is placed in the UK or here in the US. However, if a UK Love-Hound should volunteer to do the job from England--and should it prove economically worth our while to have it done from England--then perhaps a photo might also be possible. It sounds like a longshot to IED, though. > I cannot think of any of Kate's songs where the perspective is that of >a person who is not acting on some kind of interior or exterior source >that leads them into action... IED must applaud you, Doug, for introducing a really intriguing new way of considering Kate's work. You have provided a large number of examples to support your thesis, too, and IED agrees that there are many songs which seem to stem from, if not "hopelessness", than at least a kind of _fatalism_, or a sense of _resignation_ about the inevitability of fate. One could, however, argue that _every_ action is merely a _re_-action to another, previous action; so we should be careful not to lump all of Kate's songs of action into this "reactive", or "power- less" category, if only because it becomes too general a criterion. IED can think of several songs, off hand, which seem to celebrate a kind of power_ful_, _affirmative_ action and attitude on the part of the narrator. What about _Pull_Out_the_Pin_? There we see a Viet Cong guerilla soldier taking drastic (and highly efficient!) action in what he sees as a perfectly justified act (even though his attitude is not entirely unmixed). And in _There_Goes_a_Tenner_ the group of protagonists, although perhaps (only perhaps, :>oug!) not ultimately successful, nevertheless have taken upon themselves an extraordinary new step in their "careers", so to speak. These are not exactly heroes, but they are also not powerless victims of fate. They have taken a position and they will stick to it till the end. _Moving_, about Lindsay Kemp (or about a young girl in the audience at one of Kemp's shows, perhaps), is another highly affirmative song, one which seems to defy the fatalism of many of Kate's other early texts. And the words of _Them_Heavy_People_ very clearly advocate that we can change our situation in life and the universe through the acquisition of knowledge. _Room_For_the_Life_ is another call (this time directed at the passive, fatalistic woman whom the narrator addresses) to take a positive direction, to survive difficulties and overcome them, to embrace life rather than shy away from it. _James_and_the_Cold_Gun_ does much the same thing, only this time in reference to a man. In both these songs the _subject_ is being urged by the _speaker_ to change course toward a more life-affirming philosophy. Both songs seem (to IED, anyway) to be arguing _against_ a negative or fatalistic attitude. There are several other songs with similarly optimistic, determinist messages: _L'Amour_Looks_Something_Like_You_; _Leave_It_Open_ (perhaps); the man's position (told through the choruses and bridge) in _Night_of_ the_Swallow_; _The_Big_Sky_; _Jig_of_Life_ (a song which fairly reeks life-affirmative, determinist philosophy!); and _The_Morning_Fog_. All of these songs, in IED's view, seem in one way or another to carry strong anti-fatalist, anti-powerlessness messages. This is not to deny your own point, which is amply documented. IED is even ready to concede that the songs which convey a feeling of pessimism or powerlessness exceed in number those which suggest a more determinist attitude. But this all really goes to the more central characteristic of Kate's work: its _empathic_, rather than _autobiographical_, nature. IED doesn't want to try to argue that _none_ of Kate's songs bears _any_ relation to her personal life. That would be ridiculous. Clearly many of her songs, particularly in the early work, bear the mark of the confessional songwriter. And some songs are so vague-- or at least their specific narrative referents are so obscure to the public so far--that, in the absence of more concrete information, they _appear_ to us to be self-referential (_Under_the_Ivy_, for example, or _Burning_Bridge_, perhaps). But _in_general_, Kate's source of inspiration for her songwriting seems to come from _outside_ herself. She is captivated by _other_ people's situations, ideas, feelings and predicaments. She seems perpetually to be delighting in, even revelling in, her own capacity to _empathize_ with the mind and soul of another human being. She gets inside her subject, and assumes his/her world and viewpoint long enough to write and record a song. For the most part this vast, almost limitless capacity to _empathize_ with the experience of people other than herself is absent in other contemporary songwriters. And it's this capacity which is at the core of Kate's ability to crystalize human emotions that are at once universal and _complex_--something which virtually no-one else working today can do, certainly not to the degree that Kate can. > I'm going to have to ask you to expound on this one. Maybe I am >misunderstanding what you're saying, but I would maintain that she >identifies in some way with most, if not all, of the attitudes and >opinions of her characters. Well, this is just the point IED is wrestling with. There is a world of difference between _empathy_ and _sympathy_. When you say that Kate "identifies" with the attitudes and opinions of her songs' characters, IED must agree, with some hesitation. But he would argue that Kate "identifies" with those attitudes only long enough to communicate the power of the characters' feelings. There is no reason for us to assume that Kate shares those characters' attitudes _herself_, when she is _not_ performing those songs. On the contrary, she herself has explained many times that she becomes the character only when she is performing (or, of course composing) that character's song; she does _not_ "carry it home" with her at night. And she often uses language very carefully so as to avoid sounding as though she has taken a definite moral or intellectual position in regard to an issue raised in a song. Her remarks about _Cloudbusting_, _Mother_Stands _For_Comfort_ and _Experiment_IV_, for example, are amazingly neutral and detached. She is always very careful never to say, for instance, that she "believes" in the theories of Wilhelm Reich, or even in the cloudbuster itself. Nor will she ever say that she feels the mother in _Mother_Stands_for_Comfort_ is "justified" in protecting her murderous son from harm. And she is even careful to describe the policy of the government types in _Experiment_IV_ as "interesting" and "fascinating", rather than "horrid" or "rotten" or something like that. This is what IED means by "empathy": Kate "puts on the skin" of her subjects. But this means that the song represents the thoughts and feelings _of_her_subjects_, and _not_ necessarily of herself. Now naturally there are some exceptions, and they are very obvious ones to spot: the plight of the Aborigines in _The_Dreaming_, of the fetus in _Breathing_, etc. We all know that Kate has definite views about these songs' themes. But these are exceptional songs for that reason; they are not typical of her work. >can imagine if-that-were-me-I'd-feel-like-this, and write songs like >Get Out Of My House and Breathing, putting herself into those >imaginary situations... IED agrees with you completely here. It seems we have simply had a confusion of terminology. Kate _does_ "put herself into those imaginary situations," exactly. This is what IED means by "empathy". But that's quite different from saying that, just because she can imagine what her characters are feeling and thinking, she herself--even when _not_ performing those songs--feels and thinks the same way that her characters do. It's precisely because she does _not_ (necessarily) share her characters' views that she can write songs which present such a wide variety and range of attitudes--including ones which seem to be in direct contradiction with one another, as in the case of the group of songs which explore themes of "powerlessness" and those which seem to present "determinist" attitudes. Larry suggests driving down from the Bay area with other L-Hs for a Katemas get-together chez Andrew Marvick, and IED is agreeable, but he must warn everyone that he cannot offer to provide overnight shelter for any of you. As much as he would enjoy housing Kate-fans for two nights, he simply will not be able to oblige--he is himself a guest of the owners of the house in which his Bush Bash will take place, and anyway, the bedrooms are full up. So be alerted that visitors to L.A. for Katemas weekend will have to find a spot of their own to bed down in. Food of sorts (probably all vegetarian, for Kate's sake) will be provided on July 30, beginning in the early evening. Details will be announced soon. Paul asks for the latest word on the next Kate Bush album and the possibility of a tour. The answers are disappointing: nobody really knows. The latest and best guestimates (is Neil cringing at that bit of jargon?) are: KBVI due in September (so perhaps the first single will appear in mid-August or so), and a tour _might_ actually follow, though Marillion's reference to Autumn is probably unrealistic. > I have never heard of "Ran Tan Waltz" or "Ne t'en fuis pas". > Where do they appear ? _Ran_Tan_Waltz_ was the b-side of the _Babooshka_ single. _Ne_T'en_ fuis_pas_ was the b-side of the _There_Goes_a_Tenner_ single, and later the a-side of Canadian- and French-market singles. >Why is it KT all the time, and not KB?)... The monogram "KT" should really look more like this: --------------------------- ! / ! / ! / ! / ! / ! / !/ ! ! It's a kind of nickname for Kate (an anagram that simply says "Katey"), but the monogram has a very long history. (It was a symbol for the Knights Templar in Arthurian times.) Kate called her first band The KT Bush Band. Also, and most importantly, it is the "secret" symbol of Kate Bush, and as such can be found "hidden" somewhere on each of her albums. Seek and ye shall find. > Is there a place where people can go to share > collective knowledge/information without pretension? (I know, I'm > asking for it...) No, IED is. Pretension is sort of unavoidable with IED in the pic- ture, he's afraid. There are other "places" where inquiring KT minds can go, and they are, for the most part, completely unpretentious. There are over a dozen different active Kate Bush fanzines. But they are all much slower, and arguably less fun, than Love-Hounds. > Don't be put off by the insider aspects. Put _HoL_ on the turntable for >the thousandth time, turn the volume up until you can hear KaTe _Breathing_, >then join right in. If you feel like KapiTalizing every other letter of the >alphabet, please do so. Just join in. Ask questions, offer indefensible >opinions, make flagrantly offensive statements of fact. As long as you >listen to Kate, it's all acceptable, all welcome. > >-- Steve Williams ...!cs.utexas.edu!halley!steve IED agrees completely with every word of Steve's above. By no means should anyone's exasperation with IED's mannerisms or tone inhibit the free flow of Kate-ian ideas. If you have anything to say about Kate Bush or related matters, _say_it_here_! (wiTh or wiThouT the KusTomary KapiTals.) Tim Maroney will be distressed to learn that his CD of the live Hammersmith tracks, etc. is, as David Datta proved beyond any shadow of a doubt, a bootleg. IED can't help noticing the poetic justice in hearing that our most Upright and High-Principled member has been trying to convince himself that the bootleg (a pretty obvious bootleg, for that matter) which he couldn't resist buying is somehow a "legitimate" release. Give it up, Tim! For one thing, that Rue de Rennes address is the address of FNAC, the largest (until Tower's recent opening, anyway) record store in Paris--a joke, see? David D. and Lazlo Nibble have already listed the many other clear signs of the CD's shady and immoral origins. -- Andrew Marvick
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (07/13/89)
To: Love-Hounds
From: Andrew Marvick
Subject: Mailbag
Jessica wrote asking about the possibility of an East Coast
Katemas party, which reminded IED to pass on a message given him
by Boston-area Love-Hound Joe Turner when Joe was visiting L.A.
last week. He told IED to announce that he _would_ host a Katemas
party at his home on Katemas. So now it's up to you.
> Me! Me! I happen to be on this coast this year, so hell yes I'll go.
>Let me know if you could use another laserdisc player.
> cogito, ergo KaTe
>
>-- dave
Well, well! IED may actually make the acquaintance of veteran
Love-Hound KorrespondenT Dave Hsu after all this time. What's going
on here? First Joe Turner, now Dave...Are all you East Coast Katefans
finally coming to your senses? No, Dave, one laser-disk player will
be enough. There don't look to be many people at this party. It may
end up being just you and IED.
About a party: Things are getting kind of confusing. IED will not
be able to visit Santa Cruz or anywhere near there this Katemas. There-
fore, IED can only reiterate his offer to host a party for anyone who
really wants to see, hear and talk Kate Bush for an evening, at his
home in West Los Angeles. It begins to look as though Tracy will be
hosting her own party in S. Cruz instead of joining IED's in L.A. (and
IED doesn't blame her, it's not a simple little drive to make for
one evening's chat). So what of the group who were considering
car-pooling down from the north? Any progress?
At this point it appears that the number of attendees will
be minimal this year. For one thing IED has not made up or sent
out any invitations to non-KompuTerized fans, as he did on past
occasions. So if anyone wants to show up, just let IED know your
intentions by July 25 or so, ok?
> Thankyou for piqueing my interest, Love-Hounds! As my budget
>allows, (or my desire overcomes such constraints), I will wish to
>try others. Any suggestions for an album that shows KT in a contrasting
>style or mood? Also, I dont have access to the archives, as far as
>I know- who else has done covers of her material? Excuse my ignorance,
>please.
>
>-- Tom Coleman
Well, the first two albums are in about as contrasting a mood
from _The_Dreaming_'s as any two albums can be. _Hounds_of_Love_
is perhaps a bit closer to _The_Dreaming_, overall, than it is
to the first two albums. As for _Never_For_Ever_, it's hard to
classify. Actually, it's not easy to classify any of them, so
disregard this paragraph.
Cover versions? There have been surprisingly few over the years,
considering how well known Kate is in Europe. Ray Shell did a cover
of _Man_With_the_Child_in_His_Eyes_ with Kate on backing vocals in 1979.
It was just a single, and IED has never heard it. He has also never heard
of Ray Shell anywhere before or since. Then there was Pat Benatar's
_Wuthering_Heights_. Julie Covington (of _Don't_Cry_For_Me_Argentina_
fame), who had been a longtime friend of the Bush family, recorded
a version of _The_Kick_Inside_ which turns the song into a rather
conventional kind of American folkrock-tinged ballad. And there was
an abysmal Reggae-inflected _Wuthering_Heights_ around 1981, group
unknown by IED, and not recommended. Then there were the parodies:
Faith Brown did very funny (because painfully accurate, though
exaggerated) versions of _Wuthering_Heights_ and _Wow_, and Pauline
Yates (or is IED getting her name mixed up, |>oug?) did an original
song called _The_Leotard_Song_ which is a pastiche of several Kate-ian
chord progressions and instrumental cadences which suggest some of
the early hits (it was done about 1980), and which has some quite
witty (though undeservedly cruel) lines in it. Finally, Hue and Cry
recently put out a cover of _The_Man_With_the_Child_in_His_Eyes_
as a b-side to a recent single. IED hasn't heard it.
Yes, Andy Gough, IED had heard of Kate's song from _Castaway_,
as well as its inclusion in Showtime's schedule. This does not mean
your notice wasn't much appreciated, however. Actually the version
of the song which is heard at the opening of the Nicholas Roeg
film is cut in two places, to make it fit the length of the credits
sequence. The full-length track appeared on a soundtrack album
which became available in England last year (for a brief period,
anyway). It came out only on cassette and vinyl, so far as IED has
ever been able to ascertain. It is kind of hard to find these days,
especially in the U.S., but check your best soundtrack importer.
The movie is very good, too.
>Does the logo appear in any other videos? I just started
>looking on the album covers as IED suggested, and couldn't find the logo on
>_Lionheart_. I'll have to look a little harder I guess. _The_Kick_Inside_ was
>easy enough.
>
>-- Mike
_Lionheart's_ is a bit of a purloined letter, apparently.
The logo does appear prominently in _The_Big_Sky_ video,
on the flags that are carried around in the latter part.
(It is a little hard to recognize because it's seen
on both sides of each flag, and the flags' translucence
makes for a kind of mirror, double-image of the insignia.)
> Has anyone ever heard any of Enya's
> early albums (I have heard of two)
> I haven't however been able to find them.
> Someone once saw them at Tower but I couldn't
> find them there. Anyone have any info?
>
> --Ken
Enya's first long piece of music was the soundtrack to the
film _The_Frog_Prince_, which IED has never heard of an album for.
(If anyone has information about the existence of Enya's
soundtrack album for _The_Frog_Prince_, please impart it to him!)
After that she did the soundtrack for a BBC television series called
_The_Celts_. That soundtrack has been released in the U.S., and is
even available on CD domestically. It is sometimes simply called
_Enya_. Also, although Enya loves to claim that she never listens
to anyone's music and has no influences at all (which is absurd),
the cover of _The_Celts_ is extremely similar to Kate's cover for
_Hounds_of_Love_. It shows Enya kneeling, with two wolves flanking
her. Those who remember Kate's and John Carder Bush's descriptions
of the difficult sessions they had with Bonnie and Clyde (the
Weimeraners on the cover of _HoL_) will understand why Enya's
wolves are stuffed rather than live. But no-one will ever convince
IED that _HoL_'s cover didn't directly influence Enya's. The photo
is even placed in the center of a blank white field, as in _HoL_.
> Since the rest of his typically long-winded and flatulent posting is at
> the same microcephalic level, I see no reason to respond to it in
> full. (Or should I really explain in full the meaning of an idiom like
> "Kate can't dance", explaining as if to a child that it does not mean
> she can't pick up her feet, but that she is lacking the talent
> generally considered neccessary to be a professional performer? What
> would be the point of responding to such moronic drivel?)
>
>-- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com
Well, IED can understand Tim's annoyance, since IED did fail to
notice his "smiley" symbol--for which he has already abjectly apologized.
How this mistake on IED's part (after all an understandable one,
given Tim's recent improbable remarks about the _Hammersmith_ CD being
legitimate) negates his carefully composed and amply supported
response to Tim's inflammatory, ill-considered criticism of Kate's
live performances is not clear. The fact is that the only remark
to have appeared thus far in the recent series of exchanges between
IED and Tim Maroney which could _accurately_ be described as "moronic
drivel" is Tim's statement that "Kate can't act, she can't dance,
and she certainly can't choreograph." IED has already gone to far
more trouble than such nonsense merits to show exactly how
foolish these statements are.
>Could some eKsperT ouT There give The resT of us some hinTs as To where The
>oTher logos may be found?
IED doesn't want to give anything away, but in regard to _Never_For_
_Ever_'s KT symbol, you might try contemplating a certain Katemas item
which has been the subject of some discussion in Love-Hounds recently...
>i resist the temptation to
>interpret _wow_ as KaTe's reflections on her own career
>("we're all alone on the stage tonite, we've been told
>we're not afraid of you..."); but rather, an insightful
>look from an actor's perspective (KaTe being the mistress of
>empathy that she is).
A perfect example, in fact. Kate has acknowledged that _Wow_
is not about her, but about (at least in part) a homosexual
actor. Of course, there is much in the lyrics which describes
experiences Kate herself had had by that time, so in a very general
way it could be called autobiographical. Not only the description
of the stage performance, but the chorus with all the "wows" and
"amazings" and "incredibles". By mid-1978 the British public had
noticed that Kate tended to pepper her own conversation with these
three words, and it had even become something of a joke at her
expense. Kate's use of it in the context of the song could be seen
as a way of poking fun at herself. However, as time wore on and
the press still made fun of her use of these words (which she
was using, in fact, less and less), Kate eventually became
a bit defensive about such remarks. No one really ever took the
time to consider the serious philosophy that had created this
unusual quirk in Kate's vocabulary. IED finds it extemely interesting
and important.
>and what can i say about _oh england my lionheart_? i only
>know a lump forms in my throat when i hear it. i haven't been
>able to analyze it any further than that. has anyone else
>experienced this response?
Absolutely. IED has. He'll never forget the day _Lionheart_
finally showed up in the import bin at Moby Disc Records in Sherman Oaks,
California in November, 1978. A lot of criticism (some of it
justified) has been leveled at the MOR-ish sound of _Lionheart_
in subsequent years, and Kate has said some pretty disparaging
things about the album herself (though she has also defended some
things about it, too). But there are still some devastating moments
on that album, and it's not just the songs themselves. Yes, the produc-
tion is tame, the arrangements are somehow a little too safe, etc. But
there's still an atmosphere and a _sound_ that the term "MOR" doesn't
encompass. _Lionheart_ may be the black sheep of the family, perhaps,
but it possesses its own undeniable magic.
>someone told me once that _lionheart_ is the collection of songs
>that were rejected for TKI. is this true? hard to believe these
>are rejects of Any kind...
All but a couple were indeed older songs which had not been
included on _The_Kick_Inside_. But remember that Kate had written
(and recorded solo-piano demo versions of) dozens and dozens--
perhaps more than _200_--songs prior to recording _The_Kick_Inside_,
and if you hear the 22 demos that have started to leak out, you'll
realize that "reject" is a highly misleading term. With equivalent
production values any of the 22 songs in the unreleased collection
could have made as strong an entry as anything on _TKI_ or _Lionheart_.
The fact is _TKI_ could have been a _triple_ album without any
degradation in quality. That could probably be said of any of Kate's
subsequent albums, too.
-- Andrew Marvickmph@praxis.UUCP (Martin Hanley) (07/17/89)
In article <8907130027.AA03801@GAFFA.MIT.EDU> IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU writes: > >exaggerated) versions of _Wuthering_Heights_ and _Wow_, and Pauline >Yates (or is IED getting her name mixed up, |>oug?) did an original >song called _The_Leotard_Song_ which is a pastiche of several Kate-ian >chord progressions and instrumental cadences which suggest some of >the early hits (it was done about 1980), and which has some quite >witty (though undeservedly cruel) lines in it. > >-- Andrew Marvick It was actually Pamela Stephenson who did this, as part of the Not The Nine O'clock News series, and the title was _England_My_Leotard_. Extremely funny, very cutting. (Oh, but of course it was very irreverent ;-) ) Martin Hanley. England. "It's not your mind, it's your body they're in to," my business manager says - the very song.
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (07/28/89)
Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu
To: Love-Hounds
From: Andrew Marvick (IED)
Subject: Mailbag
Jon Drukman and Joe Turner both seem to share a sad, adolescent
fear of direct expression of softer emotions in art. _The_Sensual_World_:
"Ack barf" (even though it's _plainly_ one of the greatest album titles
in the history of music); "The sheets are soaked by your tiny fish":
"Ack barf" (even though it's _clearly_ a line of pure genius, especially
as sung--two different ways--in the song); the "visuals" in _Hammer-
smith_: "laughably inane" (even though there can really be _no_question_
_whatever_ that Kate's performance is beyond any legitimate aesthetic
criticism of _any_kind_); the lyrics of _In_the_Warm_Room_: "Ack barf":
(even though they are among the only lyrics in the history of music
to have dealt with such a subject from such a perspective, and with
amazing lyrical success--and this is of course quite beyond any
question); etc., etc. IED recommends that Jon and Joe take off a few
weeks to "get in touch with their feminine sides," or something. Because
their criticism has begun to say far more about their own hangups than
about the work they attempt to criticize (which, of course, is
completely uncriticizable).
-- Andrew MarvickLove-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (07/28/89)
Really-From: jsd@gaffa.mit.edu (Jon Drukman) In article <8907271819.AA09638@GAFFA.MIT.EDU> Love-Hounds@GAFFA.MIT.EDU writes: >Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu > > Jon Drukman and Joe Turner both seem to share a sad, adolescent >fear of direct expression of softer emotions in art. You bet. Art is not the place for songs about posies and red roses and soft sunlight diffusing like a million optic fibers through your auburn tresses while a string quartet plays a brilliant little piece off to the left behind that gorgeous sequoia. Art is about beer cans being smashed into foreheads. Art is about not being able to have your orgasm on the Playboy Channel because of horrible noise interference. Art is about the reconciling of fundamentally irreconcilable objects. Hence "Waking The Witch" - brilliant piece of work. ART in the highest sense. Everything else is just decent pop music, which ain't art. But I don't want to get into this, because I'm being really facetious and flip and off the cuff here. This is because all through high school my teachers constantly told me that I was a good writer but didn't take things seriously enough. So here's my rebellion, a few years too late. Anyway, I seem to have lost the main thread here. Oh yeah, Andrew, wake up and smell the coffee. I ain't gettin' in touch with my "female side." It sounds suspiciously illegal at the least, amoral at the best, and completely disgusting. How can I maintain my intensely macho image otherwise? For those interested in seeing more of my "female side," address your correspondence in a plain brown wrapper. BTW, me and my less female side will be making a smashing debut at the East Coast Katemas party with a version of "Running Up That Hill" that I've been working on that guarantees to send all purists Running For The Hills. Bring your audio and/or video recorders and don't miss out on this once in a lifetime performance art spectacular. It promises to be more than I can handle. Joe Turner is helping out with this, although he just found out about it by reading this sentence. The audience is requested to bring oil drums, coke bottles and anything else that would make a large percussive crash. +---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ----------------------+ | Jon Drukman | jsd@gaffa.mit.edu | Freedom is a road seldom traveled by | | True Vulgarian | jsd@umass.bitnet | the multitude... | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (07/30/89)
Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu Subject: Love-Hounds Digest From: Doug Alan <nessus@GAFFA.MIT.EDU> To: Love-Hounds@GAFFA.MIT.EDU > From Marvick's most recent blathering I deduce that he has taken the >coward's way out. While announcing in public that he would not violate >KT's rights, he has gone ahead and done it in private. To his obvious >pretense must now be added the charge of hypocrisy. >A postscript should be added to the card -- "On behalf of all those who >have ignored your express wishes and violated your privacy, a great big >'Fuck You and the Horse You Rode In On'. Kiss, kiss.". > >-- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com IED would only point out (and not in order to try to excuse anyone's hypothetical legal transgressions) that there is a huge difference between cowardliness and hypocrisy. One can certainly consider cowardice as relevant in this hypothetical situation, but hypocrisy is not applicable, since all parties hypothetically involved have already acknowledged many times their awareness of the moral conflicts involved. As for Tim's suggested postscript, IED and all others who ever entertained the notion of making copies of the demos certainly do _not_ have sentiments like those which Tim so crudely descibes. Their awareness of the conflict attendant to such a pro- ject is every bit as acute as Tim's. Their consideration of the possibility of making copies contained not the slightest scrap of the kind of vulgar arrogance which Tim's postscript ascribes to them. On the contrary, they correctly traced their temptation to copy the tapes to their unharborable passion to _hear_the_music_--even if that passion might only be satisfied by violating Kate's supposed wishes. That's neither arrogant nor hypocritical--it's simply an honest admission of weakness. Also weak--but hardly hypocritical--would be a reluctance on the participants' part to confess publicly to a crime, if should they decide to commit it. In owning up to the fact that such a project would be a crime, and that it might possibly (though this is not, of course, known) be upsetting to Kate, the fans involved could not accurately be called hypocritical. The fact is that these people's actions, though perhaps illegal, could only be seen as a function of their love of Kate's art, and of their simple inability to withstand such a powerful musical lure. It is of course possible that Tim's moral rectitude is more formidable than that of the more than 140 people who considered participating in such a project. It is far more likely, however, that his passion for Kate's art is simply weaker than theirs. The biggest mystery is what Tim Maroney is getting out of this discussion group, anyway? Is it just the satisfaction of posting foul language in a public forum, or what? -- Andrew Marvick
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/13/89)
Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag >> Listen to Vickie Mapes's radio programme, "Suspended in Gaffa" , >>next Saturday, October 16, at 10 p.m., if you live in the Kansas >>City area. Last Saturday, October 9, Vickie gave the song its U.S. >>debut, and next week she will have a fuller preview of the new > > OK, how to the rest of us get into a time warp to go forward into >October Like you? Oops! Thanks for bringing this error to IED's attention. He apologizes for the error--seems he has oKTober on the brain these days. He meant _September_ 9 and 16, of course. For the record, though, the U.S. single, _Love_and_Anger_, _is_ coming out, in 12" form, on October 1. A rep for CBS in Chicago said they had been listening to the album over the weekend, and that there weren't any tracks that they would call "U.S. single-type material", so IED guesses they chose _Love_and_Anger_ as the least _un_American of the bunch. Album date: October 9. > andrew, i sometimes wonder what this newsgroup would be like without >your delightful, child-like bursts of enthusiasm. perhaps lizooshka >and i can start an ied fanzine... Well, IED can guess that at least a few Love-Hounds feel that they could to cut down considerably on their daily reading-time without Andrew's bursts. On the other hand, they'd also never have learned much of anything about Kate Bush. It's a plus-and-minus situation, IED concludes. Glad to see Tracy doesn't mind his occasionally overbearing foibles, however. >to larrylovehoundextrordinaire and ied for their latest treasured >possessions! ied, you devil you. Ssshhh! -- Andrew Marvick "He thought he was gonna die, but he _didn't_. And _she_ thought she couldn't cope, but she _did_." P.S.: See? She _really_is_. P.P.S.: About Jim A.'s request for a biography of Kate--Naturally, you are to disregard the moronic crap someone posted about your query yester- day. If you want to learn the details about the life of Kate Bush, you are encouraged to read the chronology which is contained somewhere within Love-Hounds's voluminous Archive. Or you can seek out the book, _Kate_Bush_Complete_, which is available in oversize paperback at very few bookstores. Or you can e-mail IED, who will forward a far-too-lengthy Kate-vita to you, providing you have a compatible address.
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/14/89)
Really-From: DSL023%1325@WVNVAXA.WVNET.EDU TO: IED Considering I don't know your address I suppose I'll ask you this way for the 'far-too-lengthy Kate-vita'. The bookstores around here won't have anything to do with Kate and the record stores would be lucky to have just one Kate album (usually Hound of Love or The Whole Story). Which is about it for Kate-mania in this area, which pretty much sucks. My Internet Address is: DSL023%muvms4@muvms.wvnet.edu or at least I hope it is. Any reasonable answers as to what Gaffa is? Jim 'the Wyrd One' Atkinson 'Love is Chemistry, Sex is Physics'
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/14/89)
Really-From: halley!steve@cs.utexas.edu (Steve Williams) In a recent Mailbag, our one and only IED writes: > P.S.: See? She _really_is_. You mean there were still doubters??? > P.P.S.: About Jim A.'s request for a biography of Kate--Naturally, you >are to disregard the moronic crap someone posted about your query yester- >day. I assume you're referring to Mr. Maroney's send-up. While I thought it a little too typical of the old-hand/new-hand attitude so prevalent on the net, I also found it pretty funny. Maroney may be an asshole at times, but he's *our* asshole, by KaTe! Adios, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Williams ...!cs.utexas.edu!halley!steve -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/15/89)
Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag >Songs I would like to know more about: > > "Night of the Swallow" > "Oh To Be in Love" > "Moving" / "Saxophone Song" > >Thank you. > >-- Brian Let's take them in order of their creation: _Saxophone_Song_ is one of Kate's earliest compositions. She made the final recording, exactly as it was released, in 1975, when she was 16 or 17, and there were no later changes. Its subject is pretty self-explanatory, though perhaps it should be said for the record that Kate had never been to Berlin, so far as anyone is aware! She probably wrote the song about the same time as _The_Man_With_the_Child_in_His_Eyes_, which is to say when she was about 14. _Oh_To_Be_in_Love_ would seem to have a pretty self-evident subject; perhaps that's why Kate has had very little to say about it. (More likely it's because interviewers have rarely had the sense to ask her about it.) It is now known (to some fans) through an earlier demo version which presents the song in a slower, more contemplative and more introvert setting for Kate's voice and solo piano; it has a very different atmosphere than on _The_Kick_Inside_. Thematically, the song seems to IED to be very similar to _Hounds_of_Love_, in that both seem to be about having fears of or misgivings about love. _Moving_ is a tribute to Lindsay Kemp, the dance and mime performer whose highly influential show, _Flowers_ (based on texts of Jean Genet), Kate attended when she was 15 or 16. Kemp's use of gesture > without sound--what Kate calls "expressive" mime, as opposed to the Marcel Marceau-tradition's "mime of illusion"--made a profound impression on her, and within another few months she had begun studying under Kemp. After Kemp left for Australia Kate went on to work with several other dance instructors at the Dance Centre in Covent Garden, but she has always referred to Kemp as the first and foremost influence on her use of movement as an expressive vehicle in her musical performances. In 1981 an erstwhile classmate from the Kemp classes, the little- known (but reasonably talented) recording artist Zaine Griff recorded his own tribute song to Kemp, called _Flowers_, and Kate sang back-up vocals on the track. _Night_of_the_Swallow_ is, of course, a much later piece of work, and we are lucky that Kate has had a few things to say about it. Here is her paragraph on the song, from an old article she wrote for the _Kate_Bush_Club_Newsletter_ in 1982: Ever since I heard my first Irish pipe music it has been under my skin, and every time I hear the pipes, it's like someone tossing a stone in my emotional well, sending ripples down my spine. I've wanted to work with Irish music for years, but my writing has never really given me the opportunity of doing so until now. As soon as the song was written, I felt that a _ceilidh_ band would be perfect for the choruses. The verses are about a lady who's trying to keep her man from accepting what seems to be an illegal job. He is a pilot and has been hired to fly some people into another country. No questions are to be asked, and she gets a bad feeling from the situation. But for him, the challenge is almost more exciting than the job itself, and he wants to fly away. As the fiddles, pipes and whistles start up in the choruses, he is explaining how it will be all right. He'll hide the plane high up in the clouds on a night with no moon, and he'll swoop over the water like a swallow. Bill Whelan is the keyboard player with Planxty, and ever since Jay <Kate's eldest brother John Carder Bush> played me an album of theirs I have been a fan. I rang Bill and he tuned into the idea of the arrangement straight away. We sent him a cassette, and a few days later he phoned the studio and said, "Would you like to hear the arrangement I've written?" I said I'd love to, but how? "Well, Liam is with me now, and we could play it over the phone." I thought how wonderful he was, and I heard him put down the phone and walk away. The cassette player started up. As the chorus began, so did this beautiful music--through the wonder of telephones it was coming live from Ireland, and it was very moving. We arranged that I would travel to Ireland with Jay and the multi-track tape, and that we would record in Windmill Lane Studios, Dublin. As the choruses began to grow, the evening drew on and the glasses of Guiness, slowly dropping in level, became like sand glasses to tell the passing of time. We missed our plane and worked through the night. By eight o'clock the next morning we were driving to the airport to return to London. I had a very precious tape tucked under my arm, and just as we were stepping onto the plane, I looked up into the sky and there were three swallows diving and chasing the flies. >IED, > For those of us with only a CD player, will the single be coming >out in 3" CD? Or will we have to wait until Oct. 9th for the album to >be released? > >-- andy IED just called CBS to find out, but was told that although they might decide to make a CD-single, there were no plans yet to make one. The woman there told IED that all such "gimmicks" were made "sort of as we go along", and that included limited-edition color-vinyl records, too. Altogether a very depressing conversation. Sorry to have to be so imprecise. However, the lack of a plan for a _commercial_ CD-single release does _not_ mean that some _promo_ CD-singles won't be made, so keep an eye out for them. >Anyway, has anybody noticed similarities in one of themes of ``Kashka >from Bagdad'' and ``All the Love'' ? I can't pinpoint it exactly, but >there's something about the chord sequences or descending intervals or >the arrangement that are similar -- I'm not talking about the >main verse/chorus parts... IED doesn't know what parts you are referring to--neither the verses _nor_ the choruses? Confusing. At any rate, _Kashka_ is based mainly on a modern, or "tonic", minor-key scalebased melody, with (in the choruses) a reference to the middle-eastern "enharmonic" scale, and (in the verses) a typically minimal hint of the "blues" scale. By contrast, _All_the_Love_, like the new song _The_Sensual_ _World_, is notable for its foundation in an essentially "modal" scale-form for its melody. It's basically a pentatonic sequence of notes, using the perfect fifth as its "center". This is one of the most ancient kinds of scales, and Kate probably absorbed it from her earliest years, when listening to Irish and English traditional music in her home. Ancestors of the Irish/English modal melodies include Ambrosian and Gregorian chant. In fact, nearly all ancient liturgical music, especially in the British Isles, is modally based. Kate has also demonstrated a sophisticated awareness of the revivication of these scales as the bases of melody in the works of Vaughn Williams and (to a degree) Delius. A favourite piece of hers is Delius's song for a cappella choir, _Song_to_be_Sung_of_a_Summer's_Night_on_the_ _Water_, which, though harmonically very complex, is founded on English modal scales. And the violin solo she wrote for Nigel Kennedy at the beginning of the twelve-inch re-mix of _Experiment_ _IV_ is extremely similar to Vaughn Williams's solo-violin part in _The_Lark_Ascending_; both are modally-based melodies. Interestingly, not only is the melody of _The_Sensual_World_ (especially the pipes', whistles' and fiddles' melodic parts) modal rather than ordinarily tonal, but so is that of the b-side, _Walk_ _Straight_Down_the_Middle_ (yes, IED was fortunate enough to have been given a chance to hear the new twelve-inch, but unfortunately he is unable to make copies for people, so please don't ask, it'll be out in three days anyway). > Any reasonable answers as to what Gaffa is? > >-- Jim 'the Wyrd One' Atkinson Don't worry, !>oug, IED will _not_ rise to the bait this time. Sincere thanks to Neil Calton for his latest update about Kate in _Q_, and IED would also like to express his appreciation for all the efforts Ed Suranyi has been making in Kate's behalf recently. >> Next thing I know, I saw a video for some sort of environmental group >>doing a Live - Aid type song, and Kate was in it. I only got a glimpse >> >>-- Danny > I am not positive of all the details, but I am quite sure that the song >in question was by an organization called Ferry Aid, which was put > >--Heather Wait! Heather, you're right that Kate sang on the Ferry Aid _Let_It_ _Be_ single, but that's not what Danny saw. He saw Kate's one-line contribution to the _Spirit_of_the_Forest_ single, by Gentlemen Without Weapons, for which an even greater number of famous people (not all musicians) were collected as guest singers. All the instrumental sounds were sampled from the rain forests of South America, in the aid of which the single (and the video and the TV special) was made. The single is still available, though IED believes only as a twelve-inch. It was, unfortunately, pretty much of a flop commercially--bad timing coming out the same week as the Greenpeace _Rainbow_Warriors_, which snagged VH-1 playlist space. IED guesses there just wasn't enough market-share for two charity popsong/videos at once. >PS, and don't flame me for this. This is about the song 'And dream of >sheep" (spelling is off I know that) >To me that little section in the middle where a voice comes in sounds like >a radio anouncer and he is giving a radio forcast. >Yes, Yes?, No, No? Which is it. > >-- Again, Danny Who would flame you for that observation? IED agrees with you, anyway. In fact, IED wrote out the words he hears (with help from a couple of English Love-Hounds), as follows: "Attention: Shipping information in sea areas...Bell Rock, Tiree, Cromaty, gale east. Malin, Sellafield..." -- Andrew Marvick
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (09/23/89)
Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu
To: Love-Hounds
From: Andrew Marvick (IED)
Subject: Mailbag
First, a sincere and warm thankyou to Julian West for the extremely
cogent information he gave about the connections between _Ulysses_ and
_The_Sensual_World_. IED, who owns the Penguin edition, had searched
in vain for "Chapter 11" yesterday (the original chapter headings are
not included in that edition, it turns out), so could find only the
relevant soliloquy at the very end. The specific page references you
gave, therefore, Julian, are most opportune and much appreciated.
It occurs to IED that Kate _might_ be drawing partially, or even
possibly in toto, from the recent film _James_Joyce's_Women_, which
starred Fionula Flanagan as Molly Bloom, and which included a long
soliloquy based on but also of course much different from the original
in _Ulysses_. This would be worth checking into.
> Now. Mystery lines.
> "Going deep south". The NME(?) review someone posted this morning
>gave this line as "going deep sex". I think this is odd, and unlikely.
>"deep south" and "deep six" are both expressions. "deep sex" sounds a
>little direct for line two of a song!Can we try to get an authoritative
>reading on this one?
As much as he'd like to, IED cannot oblige. This is one of several
lines in the song which IED simply cannot hear clearly enough to
make sense of. We'll just have to wait till the album comes out with
the lyric sheet.
> "he's up off his head". Could this possibly be "Howth Head"? That is
>the physical location of the episode in _Ulysses_, a headland north of
>Dublin. (see eg 643 line 13)
Yes! Yes! Yes! That's what she's saying! Great work!
>"down on the peach". Molly uses the word "peach" once, in the phrase
>"soft like a peach" in reference to female sexual organs (Vintage
>page 770). Earlier in the day she has been presented with a gift
>of peaches and pears. Can't find a reference to "down" on peaches.
Nevertheless it makes perfect sense in this context. You must
have hit on the correct reference (p. 770).
> "?Coralean? girl". Could it possibly be "Coriolanus" or "Cordelia"?
>Both are mentioned in _Ulysses_, but beyond that I have no suggestions.
As Greg O'Rear noted already, Kate is saying "Like a Machiavellian
girl" here. Thanks, Greg.
> "?o'er ernos? body" ???
The words here are "of a woman's body".
> "The Sensual World" seems to be original to Kate. The word "sensual"
>somewhat surprisingly does not occur in _Ulysses_, and so _a_fortiori_
>neither does "sensual world". Does IED have any further reference to
>Rupert Croft-Cooke's work _The_Sensual_World_? I can't find it in
>the Dartmouth library either. I have written down a date of 1903--if that
>is the date of the work, it is a natural for earning a reference in _Ulysses_
>which is set in 1904. I rather think that is Croft-Cooke's birthdate though.
Yes, it's just his birthdate. Most of his books were written between
the mid-1930s and the early 1970s. IED really doesn't think the Croft-Cooke
books have much to do with _TSW_. It's probably just a co-incidence.
Finally, IED didn't take umbrage against you, Julian, for correcting
his spelling of Vaughan Williams's name. On the contrary, he shares with you
a respect for spelling which often leads him into breaches of the sad
protocol devised by our present social order, which has become so complacent
in its illiteracy that it actually views bad English as a virtue, and the
consciousness of error as a sin. By all means, correct IED's spelling whenever
and wherever it occurs!
>These are not the first Joycean references
>in Kate's work.
This statement intrigued IED, also. Could you enlighten him about
any other possible Joycean allusions? And thanks very much for sharing
your evident expertise, Julian. It is valued highly by this Love-Hound.
>Also, does anyone know if the Canadian single will be "TSW" or the
>before-mentioned American single (whose name escapes me)? Since the
>(416) 672-KATE number is playing "TSE" and is in Toronto, I'm not sure
>just what our Canadian friends will be hearing first.
>Also, in what kind of record store was IED able to find his recent finds?
>I've been talking to both Towers in the south bay and Star Records in SJ
>(they supposedly specialize in imports) and these folks don't know shit!!
>"Kate Bush has a new album out?" ARGH!!
>
>-- keving@gaffa.wpd.sgi.com
IED suspects that the Canadian single will be _TSW_, not _Love_and_
_Anger_ (as in the U.S.). This is because so far as IED knows Kate is still
signed with EMI for the Canadian market, so the single will come from EMI.
As IED has explained before, he is fortunate to have a Bleecker Bob's
branch in his town (L.A.). B. B.'s is a rip-off joint, but they have a London
branch, and are able to ship out their merchandise immediately from London to
NYC and L.A. twice a week. Hence IED's lucky finds day before yesterday.
However, all decent import rock shops will surely get in a copy
or two of the new single within the next week or two, no? They're just
a little slower than Bleecker B.'s.
> Have we discussed and I jell-ed out and missed possibly taking up
>a collection and getting on of our UK friends to purchase Kate's
>new album? Mabye you, IED would be willing to be the pivot person?
>I went to several local stores this morning. I was not surprised that
>they didn't know a new album was available. What did surprise me was
>that several said" UNLESS there's several(more than 1) million albums
>sold overseas, that it'll be 4-52 weeks before we might see it here.
>That sucks, pure and simple.
>
>Steven C. Blair 7651 Fairoaks Drive Pleasanton, Ca 94566
No, no, Steven! Don't listen to jerks like that, listen to IED! He's
already told everyone that CBS _is_ planning to release the album, with
a U.S. single, right on schedule. And their promotion campaign sounds
pretty substantial, at least on paper. So no one needs to get the import
LP unless they like collecting.
Thanks _hugely_ to Michael Lamoureux for posting all those names,
phone numbers and addresses. It takes a load off IED's mind, and he
will be using many of them himself in the very near future. Great
work, Michael.
>My question concerns Kate's Irish background. I've been told that
>her father is/was Irish. Is this true ? Being Irish myself (but
>working in the UK) I'd be interested in any info.
Well, Nolan, you've got it almost right. Kate's father is
English through and through (or at least a ways back--for a thorough
and rather boring recap of both parents' ancestry see Vermorel's
scummy book _The_Secret_History_of_Kate_Bush_).
Kate's _mother_ Hannah, however, is indeed 100% Irish. She
grew up in Ireland, and was in fact a skilled dancer of Irish folk-
dance, so Kate has told us. The musical influence from Ireland is
due in part, therefore, to Hannah's background, but perhaps more
directly it stems from the deep interest in Irish folk music which
Kate's brothers Paddy and John Carder Bush had when they were in
their teens and Kate still a little girl. (Paddy has, of course,
gone on to become a scholar and maker of ancient musical instruments,
including many Celtic instruments which are rare or even extinct
today.) Both brothers belonged to folk-influenced groups for a time
during the late '60s-early '70s, and Kate has spoken often of night in
her youth, spent round the hearth of their sitting room at East
Wickham Farm when her brothers, uncles and aunts would play and
sing Irish music till late at night. Kate considers those experiences
to have been among the most important formative influences on her art.
-- Andrew MarvickIED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (11/21/89)
To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag IED is relieved to hear that his information re "Buzz Bin" was not accurate, and that the video is indeed getting some airtime on MTV. >I'veonly bought one bootleg; it was the one with Kate in Japanese-like armour >on the front, and a willowy white dress on the back; a two-record set. The >cost was something like $30. >Now, the bad part: It was unlistenable. I was all excited (the album had, I >believe, one or two songs I hadn't heard) about it, but the sound quality was >MISERABLE. My friend and I listened to it for about 30 minutes, and then, >afterone song (I forget which) was over, he put in the official CD version of >the same song. The difference was amazing. You are probably referring to the _Live_in_Bristol,_England_ bootleg two-record set. The two photos you describe share the front cover, however--the back is a close-up portrait shot of Kate. As to the sound quality, you are certainly right--it is poor. The advantage of the Bristol set (and the London Palladium set, which is also available) over the original studio versions is obvious--the performances are live! Consequently there are hundreds of changes, extensions and interpretive nuances to be found in the live bootleg recordings that do not exist in the official releases. The only CD of live Kate Bush material is an edited transfer from the Hammersmith-Odeon film. The advantage of the poor-quality bootlegs over _it_ is that only the 2-LP sets--such as the Bristol and Palladium bootlegs (and the Manchester bootleg, another widely available album)--contain all or most of the original live concerts' programme: some twenty-five songs, as well as the equally fascinating poetry/prose readings by John Carder Bush and the bits of incidental music played by the KT Bush Band in between Kate's songs. The bootlegs are fans' only access to these obscure gems. >So, my conclusions: Bootleg albums aren't worth it; if you're a completist >Katefan, there are so many of them that you'll never get them all, (I bet IED >doesn't have EVERY one, though perhaps he has many), and if you're not, then >why bother? You have a valid point. Most of these bootlegs of various KT Tour of Life dates have miserable audio, and since Kate's programme didn't really change throughout the Tour proper (there were several changes for the Bill Duffield concert of May 12, 1979), any one of the unedited LP-sets will do. But the Hammersmith Odeon CD is _not_ a complete record of the concert, and as such should not be considered an adequate substitute for the bootlegs, despite its vastly superior sound quality. As for there being too many to collect, that's all relative. IED understands that there is a bootleg (either on vinyl or tape) for virtually _every_ Grateful Dead concert ever given, and that there are some Deadheads who have all of them! In comparison, the number of Kate Bush live-concert bootlegs is small indeed. IED knows of only the following: 1. _Wow_: a two-record set containing a poor stereo dub of the H-O film's audio-track on one disk, and a mono dub of the TV special _Kate_ on the other. This is, so far as IED knows, the earliest KT bootleg; it came out in 1982 or early 1983. 2. _Live_in_Paris_: a single LP containing excerpts from the Paris concert. 3. _A_Bird_in_the_Hand_: a single LP containing excerpts (note: only nine of the original 12 tracks) from the H-O film's audio-track, in very poor stereo. 4. _Live_in_Europe_'79-'80_: a re-packaged three-LP set containing the same three LPs that were originally released as _Wow_ and _Live_ _in_Paris_. 5. _Moving_: a beautiful re-packaging of _Wow_. Audio quality equally poor, however. 6. _Temple_of_Truth_: a single LP of excerpts from an unidentified date from the Tour of Life. 7. _Under_the_Ivy_Bush_: a collection of dubs from TV performances and a few excerpts from the Mannheim and Hamburg dates of the Tour of Life. One LP. 8. _Dreamtime_: a two-record set containing a complete record of one of the London Palladium dates. Probably has the best audio of any of the bootlegs (barring the Hammersmith dubs). Best known, however, for the nude photos of a Penthouse model named Kate Simmons on the back cover. Note: These are _not_ photos of Kate Bush. 9. _Passing_Through_Air_: A 2-LP set containing b-sides and re-mixes, all of which are dubbed straight off of the official EMI singles and 12-inches. It also contains a dub of _Let_It_Be_ as Kate originally performed it with Steve Harley and Peter Gabriel at the Bill Duffield concert in 1979. 10. _If_You_Could_See_Me_Fly_: a single LP containing excerpts from the Bill Duffield benefit concert which Kate organized and gave with guests Steve Harley and Peter Gabriel. 11. _Live_in_Manchester_: a 2-LP set containing virtually the entire Manchester concert, albeit in poor audio quality. 12. _What_Katie_Did..._: a 7-inch single containing one of Kate's live performances of _Let_It_Be_ and _Running_Up_That_Hill_ from the 1987 Secret Policeman's Third Ball (Amnesty International) concerts. 13. _Live_1979-1987_: the only live Kate Bush CD to date, containing a first-rate transfer from the digitally-remixed Japanese laser-disk of the Hammersmith-Odeon film, plus Kate's live solo performance of _Breathing_ from the 1987 Comic Relief (UK) shows (dubbed from the UK home video), her performance of _Running_Up_That_Hill_ (from the official CD release), and the film-soundtrack mix of _This_Woman's_ _Work_. 14. _Moving_: no relation to no. 5 on this list, this is a seven-inch EP containing the audio-track from Kate's live performance of _Moving_ at the Seventh Tokyo Song Festival, June 1978, and her partially pre-recorded, partially live performance of The Beatles' _She's_Leaving_ _Home_ and _The_Long_and_Winding_Road_, taken off of Japanese TV, 1978. 15. _Live_in_Amsterdam_: the only one of these records which IED has not seen himself, though he knows that it exists. A single LP containing most of the brief Amsterdam concert (curtailed due to Kate's flu). >The exception to this, of course, is ObsKuriTies II, which can be found quite >cheaply and is one of the few bootlegs with mostly never-before-heard songs. >But this is the exception that proves the rule. > >-- Randy Smith You've definitely got something wrong here, Randy! "ObsKuriTies" (both I and II) is a title which IED himself gave to two homemade compilations of obscure Kate Bush tracks culled from all kinds of sources, only some of which were bootleg records. IED suspects that you are thinking of no. 9 on the above list: _Passing_Through_Air_. That 2-LP set contained most of Kate's b-sides and re-mixes up till late 1986. It has _never_ become available under the title "ObsKuriTies", however--so far as IED is aware. Both _ObsKuriTies_ tapes were never made available except through Love-Hounds, and there was never any charge for the tapes. (Incidentally, neither tape is available any longer, at least not through IED, so _don't_ ask!) Thanks, Ed Suranyi, for the bit from the Nigel Kennedy interview. High praise indeed, of Del Palmer's engineering ability, Kennedy's remark that Del had got the best sound from Nigel's violin ever--considering the kind of engineering expertise that has been put to the service of Kennedy's playing in the classical end of the business. Finally, Ray Radlein asks about Kate's Kats. Here's the story: Kate had lived with two cats for many years--she'd already had both since before the Kate Bush Club had even formed. They were named Zoodle and Pyewackit, and Kate used to contribute a comic-strip featuring Zoo and Pye in practically every issue of the old Club Newsletter. However, in 1987 Zoodle died, aged 11, and the comic strip ceased. Kate tells the story: "I used to have two cats--Zoodle and Pyewackit--but I'm afraid that Zoodle died earlier this year. I was very upset, but she was eleven and had a good life. She was a beautiful cat. Pyewackit is absolutely fine, although she missed Zoodle at first. A few months ago we adopted a stray, feeding her and letting her live in the garage, and she had three kittens. We now have the 3 kittens. They are called Rocket, Sparky and Torchy. And although Pye didn't like them all at first, they all get on really well now, and we find them cuddled up on a chair together when we get in. They're such good company for her, and they all have such different personalities. It's so entertaining just sitting watching them play. It's bringing out the kitten in Pye: I've noticed her springing across the floor and leaping onto ledges that are far too small for her. She does things she hasn't tried for years and seems to be enjoying it all. I guess we're all young at heart, but sometimes it takes something to rediscover it!" -- Andrew Marvick P.S.: Thanks to all those who wished IED a happy birthday today--you cheered him up!
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (12/05/89)
To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag Sakari Jalovaara asks whether (?) there is a video for _This_Woman's_ _Work_? IED would also like to know, and humbly asks any and all UK/European Love-Hounds to inform the group should a video appear on their TVs. Thanks. Also, any info re the _Wogan_ show appearance this week in England would be equally appreciated. ++sja
nv89-pyl@NADA.KTH.SE (Patrik Yle'n) (12/05/89)
In article <8912050119.AA12471@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU writes: > > To: Love-Hounds > From: Andrew Marvick (IED) > Subject: Mailbag > > Sakari Jalovaara asks whether (?) there is a video for _This_Woman's_ >_Work_? IED would also like to know, and humbly asks any and all >UK/European Love-Hounds to inform the group should a video appear on >their TVs. Thanks. Also, any info re the _Wogan_ show appearance this >week in England would be equally appreciated. ++sja There is indeed a video for TWW, I saw it for the first time on MTV this morning. It features a man sitting in a *very* bleak room in a hospital waiting for his wife(Kate) to give birth. He is obviously very distressed and has visions of his wife (Kate) coming to comfort him. The video ends when a nurse comes to tell him that the struggle is over and his wife(Kate) has given birth to a son/daughter etc. Altogether a great video, which deserves a better fate than being aired once a day on MTV! -Patrik.
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (12/06/89)
To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag >TWW(This Woman's Work) is now at number 24 in the British charts, after enteri ng at >number 30 last week. We were treated to a whole ten seconds of the video on >Top of the Pops. > >-- Steve Wallis > stevew@uk.ac.man.cs.r5 Thanks very much for this information, Steve, but _please_, can you describe those ten seconds for us? We still don't know whether the "video" for this song is new, or whether it is just the original clip from the film, _She's_Having_a_Baby_. Did Kate herself appear in those ten seconds? Thanks in advance for any information you can provide. >I don't think IED knew who the bass player was; he hypothesized that it might >be a clean-shaven Del. John Giblin is credited on the song. > >-- keving@gaffa.wpd.sgi.com Yes, and thanks for the ID of the keyboardist, Kevin. IED has more or less decided that the bass player cannot be Del with a shaven face. He just looks too different. It must be John Giblin, about whom Kate has had special words of praise recently. Giblin, incidentally, used to be the bass player in the now-long-defunct British group Metro; and he played the beautiful bass part on Kate's _Breathing_. Woj's "analysis" of the new record is too inept to merit reply. IED used to argue tirelessly with people foolish enough to embarrass themselves by criticizing Kate's work. Alas, he has not the stamina to do so any longer. He just wishes (naturally, without any real expectations) that Woj and Drukman and the other supercilious nay-sayers who plague this group would go do it someplace else. There are other music discussion groups where people as encloaked in ignorance as yourselves dither happily without cease. Can you find it in your heart to let go of your feelings _there_, rather than here? >Someone off-line suggested I get the Whole Story video to see the >Babooshka video. Well, I have been looking for Kate videos for >some time now, with little success. If anyone knows how to get >either this one or Kate Live at the Hammersmith Odeon, mailorder, >I would be grateful. > >-- Eric France (franceee@clutx.clarkson.edu) IED no longer knows whether these videos are still in release in the U.S. They were, however, available in Tower Video stores, and any domestic retail video outlet could once have ordered them for you even if they didn't normally stock them. The three videos shown in the liner-notes of _TWS_ (even the U.S. editions) ) refer to UK releases only. _Hair_of_the_Hound_ was never released in the U.S. Only _Hammersmith-Odeon_ and _The_Whole_Story_ were ever released here. _The_Single_File_ was also never released in the U.S. However, all four of the KT video collections are available still (IED believes) in Japan, and a good video retailer--especially a laser-disk retailer--in your area might be able to order them for you through a Japanese distributor. Count on paying $100 or more per Japanese video, however. Thanks to Edward Lee Whiteside for his information about the VH-1 airtimes. >I don't think so. Or, if they are, I can't hear it, and I have (if >I say so myself) a pretty good ear for these sorts of things. Maybe >they're pushed just the tiniest amount up, but it certainly doesn't >qualify for the "single mix" appellation that the EMI cretins have >given it. This is astoundingly stupid. IED just made a comparison of all three mixes of _TWW_ on CD last night, and sure enough the distinctions were just as Ed and IED described them to you, Drukman, and they weren't even subtle differences. Listen to the passages around the line "just can't let it show" and if you have _any_vestige_ of musicality, even you will be able to detect the differences in the mix. The differences between the original soundtrack mix and the _TSW_ LP mix are already pretty clear. The difference between the bass line of the _TSW_ LP mix and the new single mix are equally audible. This being the case, IED points out once more that it would have been dishonest of Kate had she _not_ made the note that this mix is not the same as the LP mix. IED frankly can't understand why this simple bit of factual information should irritate Drukman, unless its true cause is Drukman's pathetic frustration at his own lamentable inability to detect the obvious differences between these mixes. Incidentally, if you listen closely, you will all be able to detect where the bit of spoken dialogue, heard in the soundtrack mix of the song near the beginning, has been excised. There is an odd kind of noise in exactly that spot on the _TSW_ LP and single mixes. >I noticed that they also trimmed the INTRO as well as the fade and >the bridge of "Be Kind To My Mistakes." The song runs under three >minutes after this apppalling surgery! I am well furious now; I >suppose you can call me a "bitter, bad-humoured Kate Bush fan" as >well as IED... > >-- Jon Drukman Once again Drukman is late and wrong. IED pointed out these differences over a week ago. To be specific, there are three abridgements of the recording (in addition to the changes to the mix itself). The first is in the introduction: the _Castaway_ soundtrack-album version (as opposed to the version heard in the film itself--that version was also radically abridged) begins with eight bars of instrumental introduction, which precede the point where the new mix begins. Then, after the first verse, and the return of the choral backing phrase "It is this...", another eight bars have been removed. Finally, after the central refrain the original version contains a full sixteen measures of instrumental interlude, and all of these have been removed in the new mix. In total, slightly over a minute of music has been deleted. These changes, however, you will all see, do not remove any of the song itself; rather, they have the effect of streamlining the recording and increasing the forward momentum of the narrative. Kate probably did this edit after she shortened the original mix for the opening-credits sequence of the film itself, deciding that the song actually benefited from the cuts. There are virtues to both versions, and the cuts are no reason for the kind of knee-jerk complaining we have seen from Drukman. Contrary to Drukman's claim, the fadeout of the new version is actually _longer_ than that one hears on the _Castaway_ LP. The discrepancy in the coda of the song which Drukman (again) so carelessly listened to consists of changes to the final "lum-lum-lum" (or whatever) notes which Kate sings at that point. In the original mix (in addition to the other changes in the balance and timbre of the various instrumental and backup vocal tracks) this lead-vocal motif receives an interesting echo treatment that floats above the instrumental fadeout. In the new version, Kate's vocal is left nearly untreated, and both the timbre of the vocal and the rhythmic/harmonic line of the fadeout are changed thereby. On the other hand, in the new version one can hear a new intricacy in the rhythm tracks toward the end, which were rendered virtually inaudible in both the film mix and the soundtrack album mix. >Well, when the video world-premiered on MTV's "Now Hear This" there was no >laugh and I think we can safely assume that at least this one time the >entire video would have been shown. This is false. As a matter of fact, the first showing of _Now_Hear_ _This_ that night _did_ cut off even the "Yeah!" part of the video. Not until a re-edited version of the same program was aired later in the night was the "Yeah!" restored. What this proves is that MTV cannot _possibly_ be counted on to respect Kate's work by playing it as it is given to them by her. On the contrary, MTV's (non-)policy has always been to cut off Kate's videos at any of a number of different points before their actual endings, and the butchering they did to _LaA_ on _Now_Hear_This_ is just the latest case in point. >As far as I can tell, IED, this belief of yours -- that the British CD >is more correct than the US version, or corresponding single -- is based >on the assumption that it was supervised by Kate. I, for one, find it >extremely far-fetched that an artist, even one as concerned with detail >as Kate, actually oversees such a mundane part of the mastering process >as the location of index points. Unless you have definitive inside >information that she did supervise the indexing, I think we have to say >that any supposition, one way or the other, is made without tangible >evidence. Once again you have failed to read IED's words with any care. He did not say that the fact that the laugh is connected to _LaA_ on the UK edition of the CD _proved_ that the laugh belonged with this track. In fact, he went out of his way to say that it might even turn out that the laugh does _not_ belong with _LaA_. What IED _did_ argue--with perfect reason--was that the UK CD is _far_more_likely_ to have been supervised, or at least listened to and commented upon, by Kate herself than the U.S. CD. We know from past interviews with Kate that she takes extraordinarily great care with and personal interest in the vinyl pressings of her records; and that she is _extremely_ sensitive to the differences in sound between vinyl and CD versions of her releases. It would be foolish, therefore, to discount the very real possibility that Kate checked the UK CD before it went into full-scale production. The chance that she checked the U.S. edition is far, far smaller--especially since we know for a fact that she did not even have control over the choice for the U.S. single release. > This is quite a textbook example of argumentem ad hominem, IED. IED did not present, nor did he claim to present, any argument at all in rebuttal to Drukman's ridiculous, ill-considered claims. IED does not feel any need to do so, nor has he the stamina for such a task. Furthermore, Drukman's (as, we now see, your own) ability to receive crucial and precisely worded information from IED is so limited as to make any attempt by IED to communicate with him futile. IED will therefore simply content himself with the Knowledge that Drukman and you are in error. >Such thinking is for the truly insecure, for whom having opinions >of their own is just too intimidating. > >-- Stewart IED does not, he assures you, feel intimidated. He is tired. Just tired. And it is--to this anyone here can attest--most definitely IED's opinion that Kate's mature work is "perfect". He is not the least reluctant to admit to holding this opinion. Further, he not only holds such an opinion, he Knows it to be a faKT. >To declare that anything Kate does is >perfect by definition is the true foolishness. It's true: IED does declare such a thing. He does not expect you or your peers to agree with him. IED Knows. You do not. It's as simple as that. As for this Knowledge being proof of "foolishness"--that depends on who Knows, what he Knows, how he Knows it and who is determining what is "foolishness". In this case, IED can rest easy. >I do not listen to >Kate's music searching for flaws, but if there are things I do not >like, I don't assume that it is my own ignorance or lack of taste. And there is where you make your one fundamental, crucial and tragic error. For of course it _is_ your "own ignorance and lack of taste," as you put it, which leads you into such hopeless self-deception. -- Andrew Marvick
woiccare@CLUTX.CLARKSON.EDU (The Interesting Woj) (12/06/89)
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU: > Woj's "analysis" of the new record is too inept to merit > reply. IED used to argue tirelessly with people foolish enough to > embarrass themselves by criticizing Kate's work. Alas, he has not > the stamina to do so any longer. He just wishes (naturally, without > any real expectations) that Woj and Drukman and the other supercilious > nay-sayers who plague this group would go do it someplace else. There > are other music discussion groups where people as encloaked in ignorance > as yourselves dither happily without cease. Can you find it in your > heart to let go of your feelings _there_, rather than here? I am sorry that you feel that way Andy...I had hoped that the Love-Hounds would be receptive to critical discussion, but apparantly they are not, if, in fact, you are indicitive of how the majority of the others feel. Perhaps I will take my "supercilious nay-saying" elsewhere, for it does not seem to be listened to here. I think that a close look is neccessary to gauge the inherent "goodness" of an album, otherwise the "Top 40" syndrome raises its ugly head and an album is judged purely upon past efforts or what the record companies think the public should think -- even with Kate's work. If it's any consolation to you Andy, I think _The_Sensual_World_ is a won- derful album -- it knocks the socks off of anything currently on the charts and even stands up well to here earlier work (the difference between TSW and her previous albums though should preclude all of us from saying one or the other is better). However, that is not to say that Kate is flawless, and we should all realize that. Have any of you ever heard of groupthink? If so, take heed... woj --- woiccare@clutx.clarkson.edu
sullivan@aqdata.UUCP ("Michael T. Sullivan") (12/06/89)
A 219 line article! I hope this is the last time I get the urge to respond to these ramblings. Somebody is sinking fast. From article <8912052113.AA29506@EDDIE.MIT.EDU>, by IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU: > > Woj's "analysis" of the new record is too inept to merit > reply. IED used to argue tirelessly with people foolish enough to > embarrass themselves by criticizing Kate's work. Alas, he has not Does anybody remember an interview with Kate where she says she absolutely cringes at some of here old work? She went on to say that any artist should criticize their work because an artist has to keep improving. Something to that effect. Now, if this is true then we can assume Kate tries to improve on her work with each outing. If this is true then the previous outing can't be perfect. And if it can't be perfect then Mr. Marvick is disagreeing with Kate. And if that is the case then he can't be a _true_ Kate Bush fan, because by his own example a _true_ Kate fan can't find flaw with her work. But not only has he found flaw with her work, he disagrees with her about it. Sounds like blasphemy to me. > nay-sayers who plague this group would go do it someplace else. There > are other music discussion groups where people as encloaked in ignorance > as yourselves dither happily without cease. Can you find it in your > heart to let go of your feelings _there_, rather than here? Because we know this is his newsgroup, isn't it. I hate opinions too. If only we were all mindless, grovelling, slobbering groupies like... well, never mind. > >Well, when the video world-premiered on MTV's "Now Hear This" there was no > >laugh and I think we can safely assume that at least this one time the > >entire video would have been shown. > > This is false. As a matter of fact, the first showing of _Now_Hear_ > _This_ that night _did_ cut off even the "Yeah!" part of the video. Not > until a re-edited version of the same program was aired later in the > night was the "Yeah!" restored. What this proves is that MTV cannot > _possibly_ be counted on to respect Kate's work by playing it as it > is given to them by her. On the contrary, MTV's (non-)policy has always > been to cut off Kate's videos at any of a number of different points > before their actual endings, and the butchering they did to _LaA_ on > _Now_Hear_This_ is just the latest case in point. Wait a second. I recall a posting after somebody mentioned they had seen the video (not on "Now Hear This") that you had not seen the video and that any and all details were desperately wanted. You didn't post it but the author claimed to have talked to you on the phone about it. Am I looney or what? And I just can't believe that MTV has NEVER shown the complete video unless there are naked breasts involved. Highly ulikely. > >To declare that anything Kate does is > >perfect by definition is the true foolishness. > > It's true: IED does declare such a thing. He does not > expect you or your peers to agree with him. IED Knows. You > do not. It's as simple as that. More blasphemy. Boy, it's a good thing Kate doesn't read this group. She's be plenty pissed of at that. I mean, has it occurred to you that Kate Bush can't possibly think all her work is perfection. Get a grip. -- Michael Sullivan uunet!jarthur.uucp!aqdata!sullivan aQdata, Inc. San Dimas, CA
stewarte@UCSCC.UCSC.EDU (The Man Who Invented Himself) (12/07/89)
Hairy frogs from Neptune forced IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU to type: [in response to my comment as follows:] > >As far as I can tell, IED, this belief of yours -- that the British CD > >is more correct than the US version, or corresponding single -- is based > >on the assumption that it was supervised by Kate. > > Once again you have failed to read IED's words with any care. >He did not say that the fact that the laugh is connected to _LaA_ >on the UK edition of the CD _proved_ that the laugh belonged with >this track. In fact, he went out of his way to say that it might >even turn out that the laugh does _not_ belong with _LaA_. What IED >_did_ argue--with perfect reason--was that the UK CD is _far_more_likely_ >to have been supervised, or at least listened to and commented upon, >by Kate herself than the U.S. CD. I'm willing to take your word for it that this was your original statement; I do not bother to maintain an archive of all IED's pronouncements. However, you later said that the UK CD constituted the only tangible evidence that the laugh belonged one place or the other. To be perfectly specific, to minimize further accusations of imprecise reading, you said that any other supposition, not based on the UK CD, was made without any tangible evidence. That it was _possibly_ overseen by Kate herself is hardly what I call "tangible evidence". >[...] And it is--to this anyone here can attest--most definitely >IED's opinion that Kate's mature work is "perfect". He is not the >least reluctant to admit to holding this opinion. Further, he not >only holds such an opinion, he Knows it to be a faKT. Here we see the essential fallacy, which IED, being a basically intelligent fellow, certainly realizes. He knows full well that he has spoken inherently contradictory nonsense by declaring an opinion to be a fact (excuse me, a faKT). I have to believe at this point that IED only continues in the hope of baiting others. I'm having fun so far, though, so I'll just point out two more bits of extreme silliness: >IED Knows. You do not. It's as simple as that. Ah, IED, you should come visit me some time, so I can introduce you to Tim, our household's regularly visiting Jehovah's Witness. He talks just like you do. Perhaps you could swap him the ObsKuriTies tapes for some copies of "The Watchtower". > >I do not listen to > >Kate's music searching for flaws, but if there are things I do not > >like, I don't assume that it is my own ignorance or lack of taste. > > And there is where you make your one fundamental, crucial and >tragic error. For of course it _is_ your "own ignorance and lack >of taste," as you put it, which leads you into such hopeless >self-deception. I would just like to point out here that IED has repeatedly used the word "supercilious" to describe those of us who dare to criticize Kate's works. I would further like to note that my dictionary defines "supercilious" as "coolly and patronizingly haughty". Surely I can't be the only one who think that word applies much more to IED? -- Stewart, who doesn't even care if IED accuses him of not being a _true_ Kate fan. -- "I don't know what you think of this country, but I know what it thinks about you..." -- Jazz Butcher /* uunet!sco!stewarte -or- stewarte@sco.COM -or- Stewart Evans */
CCJS@cc.nu.OZ.AU (James Smith) (12/12/89)
Michael T. Sullivan writes: > Does anybody remember an interview with Kate where she says she > absolutely cringes at some of here old work? She went on to say > that any artist should criticize their work because an artist has > to keep improving. Something to that effect. Perhaps she meant "changing," rather than "improving." One could certainly say that Kate's music changes with every outing; whether it improves each time is a little harder to substantiate. Certainly, Kate tries to improve with each new release. I guess it's fair to say that Kate has always been a little unsure of her work. She strives for perfection, but never feels that she has succeeded. The fact that she took two years to make TSW, and wanted to rerecord all the songs on TWS is a strong indicator of this. > Now, if this is true then we can assume Kate tries to improve on her > work with each outing. If this is true then the previous outing can't > be perfect. And if it can't be perfect then Mr. Marvick is disagreeing > with Kate. And if that is the case then he can't be a _true_ Kate Bush > fan, because by his own example a _true_ Kate fan can't find flaw with > her work. But not only has he found flaw with her work, he disagrees > with her about it. Sounds like blasphemy to me. By this logic, an artist can only be perfect if he doesn't try to improve; in other words, you are either born perfect or you never are. The flaw in your argument is that striving to improve on perfection does not have to produce something that is more than perfect. I guess it is fair to say that a _true_ fan (read fanatic) is one who reguards his idol as perfection. He minimises, or just can't see, her faults, and maximises her good points. The idol becomes something separate from, and different to, the actual person. Eventually the fan develops a blind spot where the idol is concerned, and tends to go off the rails when the subject of his idolatry is raised. This is not necessarily an unhealthy condition so long as the fan can recognise his blind spot for what it is. I think that recently too many people have been taking what Andrew says too seriously, rather than recognising that it is in fact his mania speaking. If you object to what he says, either ignore it, or answer with your tongue planted firmly in your cheek. Don't get bitter. I've recently had a bit of a spat with Jon Drukman over "Reaching Out." It doesn't mean that I don't enjoy his postings, or that I don't value his opinion (though I may not always agree with it). He's a "character," and he and the other characters in this group are what give it life. IED's the same. Andrew Marvick writes: >> nay-sayers who plague this group would go do it someplace else. Ignore this. Andrew doesn't mean it, though IED may. I'm sure if you reread the original section of Andrew's posting you could not fail to see that this was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. I'm surprised to see that it drew a reaction. Or perhaps not. Jim -- James Smith | Spelter was thinking, eight sons, that means he Computing Centre | did it eight times. At least. Gosh. Newcastle University | ccjs@cc.nu.oz.au | -- "Sourcery", Terry Pratchet
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (12/19/89)
To: Love-Hounds
From: Andrew Marvick (IED)
Subject: Mailbag
A newcomer to our cozy little group asks whether the _Keyboard_
interview has ever appeared in Love-Hounds. The answer is yes. In fact,
about two years ago former (but not forgotten) San Diegan Love-Hound
MarK T. Ganzer went to great trouble to transcribe and re-integrate the
'85 _Keyboard_ interview with a different version of the same conversation
originally heard on the U.S. radio programme _Totally_Wired_. This was no
easy task, because both versions had been presented to the public in oddly
re-edited, abridged forms. MarK spent many hours restoring the interview
to something like its original state.
Subsequently the interview was posted in Love-Hounds, and printed
in _The_Garden_ (Volume 1). IED will re-format it for easy onscreen
access and post it in its entirety soon.
Drukman (demonstrating again his exceptional research techniques) writes:
>Anyway, my cursory examination did not reveal any items concerning
>love-hounds or related individuals.
In fact there are numerous mentions. A special thanks is given
to Ed Suranyi (well deserved, too--much of the U.S. news in the issue
comes from Ed); there is a credit to veteran Kate-fan eKsTraordinaire
(and welcome Love-Hounds addition) Vickie Mapes for her expert
information; IED (unexpectedly referred to as "_LoveHound_ Andrew Marvick")
has a quote (mis-)attributed to him; and mention is made of Larry
Hernandez's brilliantly successful San Jose Bush Bash of last October,
and of L-Hs-related parties held in Austin, TX and Bellingham, WA.
>Ack! I forgot to mention in the last article that another bootleg
>interview CD has surfaced. It was a 5" CD in a four-colour cardboard
>sleeve, but it was sealed in a plastic longbox so I couldn't check it
>out in any great detail. The cover picture is that gorgeous
>chin-on-knees shot that surfaced circa HoL, I believe. I have it on a
>poster overlooking me, but that's irrelevant right now. So it said
>"The Abbey Road Interview" on the back and had a picture of Kate
>sitting on a chair ostensibly talking to someone. It said that it ran
>42 minutes. Price was (I think) $7 or $10... I'm sure IED will give
>us the full report on this any day now...
No, he already _gave_ the full report on this item in Love-Hounds
more than _four_months_ago_!
For the record, this CD (which has by far the best sound of
any recorded interview with Kate anywhere) in fact has nearly nothing
to do with Abbey Road studios. The interview was commissioned by _Home_-
ground_ and Kate expressly for the 1985 International Kate Bush
Convention in Romford, England. It was conducted by Tony Myatt,
a dj (and friend of Kate's who was the first dj ever to play Kate's
music--_Wuthering_Heights_ in November '78, four months before its
actual release) for England's independent Capital Radio at Capital's
own studios. (_HG_ then sent it to Abbey Road for mastering, and
Peter theorizes that the Abbey Road logo on the master tape is the
reason for the bootleggers' mis-identification. And this _is_ a
bootleg, at least in IED's book, since neither Kate, nor Peter, nor
Myatt had anything to do with its commercial release.)
The same interview was simultaneously released by the same group
in the form of a 12-inch picture-disk, which features a photo of
Kate in a pink sweater with a pinkish background on one side. The
LP has been much easier to find in the L.A. area than the CD, and
IED would say that $7-10 for the _Abbey_Road_Interview_ CD is a very
good price.
-- Andrew Marvick
"Brazil..."jsd@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (Jon Drukman) (12/19/89)
In article <8912190829.AA04031@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU writes: > Drukman (demonstrating again his exceptional research techniques) writes: > >Anyway, my cursory examination did not reveal any items concerning > >love-hounds or related individuals. > > In fact there are numerous mentions. OK, I stand corrected. I did say "cursory" - would you rather I not write anything and let love-hounds suffer needless agonies for several days before the mail-order copies arrive, not knowing if their favorite glossy mag will ever show up again in a place they can buy it? [...stuff about abbey road interview deleted...] > >42 minutes. Price was (I think) $7 or $10... I'm sure IED will give > >us the full report on this any day now... > > No, he already _gave_ the full report on this item in Love-Hounds >more than _four_months_ago_! Again, I apologize profusely. I never saw your report - it must've been back when we kept losing digests. And, indeed, I never saw this particular interview disc either on vinyl or CD before the day I made that posting. So, presumably, since I have a reasonably keen eye for these things, it is new to this part of the world. Of course, if there were more than one worshipful love-hound out here other than me, it might be even more useful info... >-- Andrew Marvick > "Brazil..." "We kissed beneath an amber moon, and softly whispered 'someday soon'..." +---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ----------------------+ | | |\ | jsd@gaffa.mit.edu | "Suck on this, | | \|on |/rukman | jsd@umass.bitnet | planet of noise bimbo!" | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
chris@world.std.COM (Chris'n'Vickie of Kansas City) (12/27/89)
Hello Chris here; MACGOWAN@NIC.DDN.MIL (Douglas MacGowan) posted: > > From the 12/16/89 edition of the San Jose Mercury News's "Action > Line" column (a consumer advocate, question/answer, etc. column): > > > Q: I have a friend who is terminally ill with AIDS. He is a big fan > of singer Kate Bush. Can you help me find an address I can write > to for an autograph and picture of her? > > - G.K., San Jose > > A: Better than that, we're having CBS Records send an autographed > photo of the English pop singer to you to give to your friend. We > happened to call CBS in New York when Bush was in town. We telephoned > you and got your friend's name, so the autograph could be > personalized. Do you have an address for the paper? We'd like to send some rare Kate stuff to this guy, care of the paper. A friend of ours, a fellow programmer on KKFI and a Kate fan, died of AIDS before the album came out. There is nothing we can do to save his life, but we could at least try to make the end of it a little less unhappy... > From: mpmst1@UNIX.CIS.PITT.EDU (metlay) asked: > > I would like to ask, with absolutely no hostile intent or wish to injure, > offend, or insult anyone at all, and solely for the purpose of my own > edification and enlightenment: > > Has any of you ever actually MET Kate Bush? Not just seen her in a record > store or on stage, mind you, but had a chance to actually chat with her > for more than the fan's usual thirty seconds? > > I know that |>oug managed a short interview with her some time ago,... Uh-oh - there goes my humility - right out the window - oh well, (sigh), ... a few years ago the sound company I worked at bought a VHS video editing system. As soon as it was set up I went to work with a copy of the film "The Innocents" and a cassette of "Never for Ever" and started to make a video for "The Infant Kiss". 200 hours and 3 complete re-edits later, I sent a copy to Kate's brother John (who has a multi-standard VHS VCR & TV). I'd finally quit my awful job the day before. Kate-Fans were visting from St. Louis, so I was at home when the phone rang. It was Kate. Luckily I'd hooked up a recorder to the phone the week before. Unluckily, Vickie wasn't home. As I fumbled for the record button I said, breathlessly, "Hi Kate". The look on my friend's (Mike Weaver) face was classic. We chatted for 10 minutes about my video, and about video and editing in general. Well to be perfectly honest- she chatted; I babbled. I sounded like Porky Pig. Buh-de buh-de buh-de. She said "well I've tried calling a couple of times before but there was no answer. I was probably calling at terrible hours of the night." I told her "no it's one in the afternoon here" and she said "oh good - then it's civilized." She is extremely pleasant and very nice. But all of you knew that already. She got a kick out of my flusterment - she said "are you having a good time?" and giggled. Kate said that she'd watched the video several times. I glowed. I bounced. She said "Bye!" I'd like to think that I might have had something to do with her decision to direct her own videos and use a "filmic" style. I have two theories about this depending on the state of my ego: 1: She liked it and it inspired her. 2: She thought "well if this bozo can make one anyone can". Vickie & I and Frank Maiale met her plane (the Concorde) at Kennedy Airport when she came to the U.S. and Canada to promote HoL. Kate and Del took a long time to get off the plane and through Customs. We took to joking about the other people getting off the plane "oh there's Kate, She's dyed her hair black and gotten a foot taller!" Al Pacino walked past. (he was in the midst of filming "Revolution" with Donald Sutherland. Did he and Kate talk on the plane?) Finally us and one other couple were the only people waiting. We asked if they were waiting for Kate. They looked at us funny and moved away. Finally Kate and Del came out. We talked for a bit. I told them we drove from Kansas City, half-way across the country, and Del said "what intrepid fans!" Kate's honesty has been batted around on the net. Well, one thing that she very definitely lies about is her height. She is tiny. Very tiny. And she was wearing heels. I gave her the most recent edit of "The Infant Kiss" and they got into a grey limo with the couple from EMI. We saw Kate and Del several times later that week - outside of radio stations and at the Tower Records signing. We also talked to Cynthia Freidland, the producer of "Night Flight", and she invited us to see the interview being taped for "NF", "Radio 1990" and "Heartlight City" at United Video. We sat on a couch at the back of the control room with Kate's brother John. The picture was astounding and the sound guys were total fools. Well, that's our tale. She is a truly nice person. It is always a pleasant surprise when you meet someone you admire and find them friendly as well. I've been a big fan of Todd Rundgren for 16 years and on the "30 second" times I've met him I haven't gotten a civil word out of him yet. I still love his music and admire him. Damm shame he's an arrogant jerk, it really is. Chris of Chris'n'Vickie
sharon@asylum.SF.CA.US (Sharon Fisher) (12/29/89)
In article <8912270726.AA02627@world.std.com> chris@world.std.COM (Chris'n'Vickie of Kansas City) writes: > She is a truly nice person. It is always a pleasant surprise when you meet > someone you admire and find them friendly as well. I've been a big fan of > Todd Rundgren for 16 years and on the "30 second" times I've met him I haven't > gotten a civil word out of him yet. I still love his music and admire him. > Damm shame he's an arrogant jerk, it really is. Gee, I wouldn't say he's an arrogant jerk at all. He's been perfectly civil, although admittedly not tremendously talkative, during the times that I've met him. On the other hand, I've met him on a semi-professional basis and it was about his computer stuff, not his music, so that might have something to do with it.
chris@world.std.COM (Chris'n'Vickie of Kansas City) (01/08/90)
Chris here, just following up on a number of postings. >From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu> > >> [Chris'n'Vickie on the "Love and Anger" video:] >> She is handed the: >> CROWN JEWELS >> {Not all the crown jewels, just the Orb and Septre, but definitely the >> British Crown Jewels, symbolic of her Britishness.} > >No, no, no. The Orb is a vaginal symbol and the Sceptre is a phallic >symbol. Notice that when she is relieved of these symbols of "male" >and "female", she is suddenly freed in the video to act more openly. >This is obviously an allusion to how we are all tragically trapped >within the stereotypes of what men and women are supoposed to be. I hope this was intended as sarcasam. Our analysis of the video was done on a point-by-point basis in order to avoid inductive conclusions. When hunting for symbols, start at the obvious. The sole reason for the existence of the British Crown Jewels (crown, orb and septre) is as a symbol of the British Empire (or what's left of it). Oh sure, the crown functions as a hat, though, (from the look on the Queen's face), not a very comfortable one. And the septre may have some traditional function, such as being used by her Royal Highness to bop the leader of the Loyal Opposition upside the head if he gets uppity. But for the most part, you don't need most of the pieces of the largest diamond ever found to make a hat and a club. If you do, you must be trying to tell people something. We believe Kate had something similar in mind, though she left out the crown to avoid looking like a margarine commercial. More comments welcome, a thesis is worthless unless sucessfully defended. >nrc@cbnews.ATT.COM (neal.r.caldwell..ii) wrote: >At about 2 AM Eastern time MTV played a Kate Bush "Rock Block" consisting >of "Love and Anger" and "The Big Sky" videos. Frantic efforts to get my VCR >ready (at the end of the VH1 interview) in hopes that they would play something >I hadn't seen or didn't have on video were fruitless since I have "The Whole >Story" video. >[deleted] > was more than a little disappointed since I wasn't aware that a "Rock >Block" consisted of a mere two videos. > >(Hey does anyone have Kate images in something besides Sun raster format?) We caught this and were supprised that they only showed two videos ourselves. In the past we've found the best time to catch rare Kate videos on Empty-Vee is during the guest VJ spots. Nick Rhodes and Simon Le Bon of Duran Duran played _Sat In Your Lap_ and others played her (I can't remember who without plowing through hundreds of tapes). About raster files of Kate: I have a color scanner that produces Targa format files at 32 bits and I can convert them to 16-bit greyscale TIFF and TGA or 24-bit TGA, if you can use those. I'm searching the net for conversion utilities, so send me info on the format you use. sharon@asylum.SF.CA.US (Sharon Fisher) wrote: >In article <8912270726.AA02627@world.std.com> chris@world.std.COM (Chris'n'Vicki[7m >> She is a truly nice person. It is always a pleasant surprise when you meet >> someone you admire and find them friendly as well. I've been a big fan of >> Todd Rundgren for 16 years and on the "30 second" times I've met him I haven't >> gotten a civil word out of him yet. I still love his music and admire him. >> Damm shame he's an arrogant jerk, it really is. > >Gee, I wouldn't say he's an arrogant jerk at all. He's been perfectly >civil, although admittedly not tremendously talkative, during the >times that I've met him. On the other hand, I've met him on a >semi-professional basis and it was about his computer stuff, not his >music, so that might have something to do with it. Well, I've met him only under the circumstances I've mentioned, and I wish I could meet him under different ones. After a show on the Acapella tour I talked to a number of the singers and Chris Anderson (his soundman) about records and things. Two of the singers, Kate fans, were looking for the marble copy of _Hounds_. Todd came out and one of the singers tried to introduce me. Todd muttered, and dived into the limo. Fans don't "need" to talk to performers, but not talking seems to give the message that the artist considers himself above the fan. Kate (and most of the other artists I've met) didn't give that impression. Maybe I'll meet him at SIGGRAPH next year. xmjschm@mbcrrb.harvard.EDU (Mike Schmelzer) asked: >Has anybody heard the version of Sinhead's _Jump_In_The_River_ which >features, er, "vocals" by Karen Finley? Karen Finley is an alledged "performance artist" whose "art" consists, for the most part, of screaming obcenities and shoving yams up her rectum. Kinda fun for about five minutes until you realize that there is no talent involved. Not being closed minded here, though. We like lots of artists as disturbing, but much more talented (Diamanda Galas, Meredith Monk, etc.) About "Madonna" (far to many comments to quote). Try to seperate the artist from his/her publicity. I find Madonna's public persona irritating, but I don't let that get in the way of the music. Madonna's job is to make pop music, and to maintain a personia to aid in selling that music. She has succeeded. Most of her stuff is well crafted at worst, and she at least seems to have creative control, unlike Stock, Aiken, Waterman drones like Kylie etc. Occasionaly Madonna turns out a truly great song/video. "Live to Tell" is perfect at the end of the film "At Close Range" and the video for "Oh Father" is very moving. No shit, watch it with the lights out and forget you ever heard of Madonna. Often great music comes from people you had written off long ago, usually in the form of the "contractual obligation album", when the artist, having nothing to lose, can forget his/her previous career. Shawn Cassidy's "Wasp" with a killer cover of "Rebel,Rebel" or Donavan's "Cosmic Wheels" with songs like "The Intergalactic Laxative." One evening on Empty-Vee's "120 Minutes" there was a news piece about John Lydon firing his band by mail, and we thought "what an asshole!" We talked about him for a bit and then after "120" was over they played PIL's "Rise." We we're floored by it and agreed that, while he was still a creep, he could write at least one brilliant song. P.S. Let's assume Madonna _can_ dance; prior to her singing career she earned a living doing just that. Chris of Chris'n'Vickie of Kansas City chris@world.std.com
nrc@cbnews.ATT.COM (neal.r.caldwell..ii) (01/09/90)
From article <9001080944.AA04442@world.std.com>, by chris@world.std.COM (Chris'n'Vickie of Kansas City): >>From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu> >> >>> [Chris'n'Vickie on the "Love and Anger" video:] >>> She is handed the: >>> CROWN JEWELS >>> {Not all the crown jewels, just the Orb and Septre, but definitely the >>> British Crown Jewels, symbolic of her Britishness.} >> >>No, no, no. The Orb is a vaginal symbol and the Sceptre is a phallic >>symbol. Notice that when she is relieved of these symbols of "male" >>and "female", she is suddenly freed in the video to act more openly. >>This is obviously an allusion to how we are all tragically trapped >>within the stereotypes of what men and women are supoposed to be. > > I hope this was intended as sarcasam. Our analysis of the video was done > on a point-by-point basis in order to avoid inductive conclusions. When > hunting for symbols, start at the obvious. The sole reason for the existence > of the British Crown Jewels (crown, orb and septre) is as a symbol of the > British Empire (or what's left of it). Oh sure, the crown functions as a I tend to agree with this view when the orb and scepter are placed into the context of the video. When considering them in the context of the song, however, I just assumed they represented what I had always understood them to represent - the king's authority (scepter) balanced by his his responsibility to justice (orb). I saw these as corresponding to the theme of the song, "Love and Anger", two forces that conflict and balance one another. >>nrc@cbnews.ATT.COM (neal.r.caldwell..ii) wrote: >> was more than a little disappointed since I wasn't aware that a "Rock >>Block" consisted of a mere two videos. > > We caught this and were supprised that they only showed two videos ourselves. > In the past we've found the best time to catch rare Kate videos on Empty-Vee > is during the guest VJ spots. Nick Rhodes and Simon Le Bon of Duran Duran Thanks for the tip. I guess I'll have to pay closer attention to these spots! >> >>(Hey does anyone have Kate images in something besides Sun raster format?) > plowing through hundreds of tapes). About raster files of Kate: I have a > color scanner that produces Targa format files at 32 bits and I can convert > them to 16-bit greyscale TIFF and TGA or 24-bit TGA, if you can use those. > I'm searching the net for conversion utilities, so send me info on the > format you use. Well, my goal here is to bring some of these presumably glorious Kate images out of the realm of high powered workstations and into the hands of lowly microcomputer users. I'm sure there are a lot of Kate fans who are micro users out there who would like to have these images in in GIF format in VGA or Super VGA resolution. This would make the images accessable to PC, Amiga, ST and (I think) Mac users. If you can still help and you are interested drop me some E-mail. > Kylie etc. Occasionaly Madonna turns out a truly great song/video. "Live > to Tell" is perfect at the end of the film "At Close Range" and the video > for "Oh Father" is very moving. No shit, watch it with the lights out and > forget you ever heard of Madonna. I really enjoyed the video for "Express Yourself", although I don't think much of the song. Somebody did a tremendous job of bringing the "Metropolis" atmosphere into full color. Also I have to wonder how many of the dance moves she does in this video are meant to be taken seriously and how much of it is just a parody of certain other "artists". If there is an anti-Kate it must be....Alice Cooper. Don't believe it? Alice did a cover of "Sun Arise" way back in 1972. Right after "Ballad of Dwight Frye" on "Love It To Death". "I saw man who was choking there/I guess he couldn't breath" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't drive too slowly." Richard Caldwell AT&T Network Systems nrc@cbnews att!cbnews!nrc (614) 860-2206
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (01/17/90)
To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag > Last night, the VJ Mario Joyner of MTV said that they > would be starting to play a "new" Kate Bush video next > week. > Of course, it could really be "The Sensual World" or > "This Woman's Work" -- we'll just have to wait and > see! We're waiting...We're waiting... So this also implies that Columbia will release a second single in the U.S. next week, right? Ha! (Try next year...) IED's guess is it'll be _This_Woman's_Work_, but who knows? Maybe they've forced Kate to work up another "American-style" video a la _Love_and_ _Anger_, this time for the "next" most "American-market-oriented" track (_Reaching_Out_?)... Sincere thanks to Andreas for transcribing the _Musik_Dramatik_ article on symbolism in Kate's videos. Some of Ola's observations were very interesting, though several were unfortunately flawed by a mis- interpretation of the English lyrics of the song. (It isn't "obvious", for example, that the setting for the video of _The_Dreaming_ is "another planet". In fact, that seems very unlikely. It's far more likely that the intended setting is Australia--a weird, horrifying alter-Australia, perhaps, but still Australia. Likewise the setting of the video of _Hounds_of_Love_ is not a "factory", but some kind of natural science museum, or perhaps a kind of wartime interum-museum which combines art collections with industrial exhibits. IED disagrees with Ola's interpretation of the entire _Hounds_of_Love_ video, in fact. No mention is made of the fact that the man is on the run from the law (and the attendant symbolism of the handcuffs, which are first placed on the heroine's hand, and finally placed on the man's hand _by_ the heroine), or of the very deliberate references to Hitchcock (talk about symbolism!). IED's conclusion is that, as welcome as Ola's article is, it barely scratches at the surface of Kate's symbolic video imagery. For a "serious" article, it is disappointingly brief, superficial and haphazard. Having said all this, it would seem only fair that IED should attempt to do better. He will try to post a supplement to Ola's article about Kate's video imagery sometime in the near future. IED's criticism of the article should not, of course, be mistaken for criticism of Andreas, to whom IED is very grateful. Thanks, Andreas! >IED: you should add the _Live_in_Bristol_ 2-LP set to your list of boots. >Sound quality is listenable mono, but faint. It can be improved with an >equalizer for cassette dubs. The nice thing about the package is just Woj: IED may have forgotten to mention the Bristol set in one of his recent postings about bootlegs, but in at least one other he included it. Here's an excerpt from a posting dating back to Christmastime: > T.Atwell asks about the availability of records of the complete >Tour of Life. IED just posted a detailed review of all the bootlegs >of Kate's Tour of Life shows. There are quite a few: the _Hammersmith_ >Odeon_ video shows twelve songs; there were also a few others shown >in a German/Dutch documentary ca. 1980; and still others in a Swedish >documentary of the same period. Of current bootlegs, the most complete >records of the concert are the London Palladium 3-LP set, the Bristol >set and the Manchester set, in that order. Other boots can be found >of part of the Paris show, the Bill Duffield (London) show, the Mannheim >and Hamburg shows, and an unidentified English show (LP called _Temple_ >_of_Truth_). All of these bootlegs can occasionally be found at >record swapmeets, and some may be obtainable via mail-order services >which advertise in _Goldmine_, etc. Almost without exception the sound >quality of all of these is _abominable_, so don't expect hi-fi audio >or you will be sorely disappointed. You then write, Woj: >Also, just a comment on the _Bird_in_the_Hand_ boot: you rate the sound >as poor stereo. My copy is quite listenable and I prefer it muchly to >the _Live_in_Bristol_ sound. Rates a B as far as I'm concerned. These ratings are all relative. IED agrees with you that in comparison with the Bristol set, _Bird_in_the_Hand_ has better sound. But that's because _BitH_ is a dub (a pretty bad one) from an early stereo videotape copy of the _Live_at_Hammersmith_Odeon_ film. IED's judgement of _Bird_in_the_Hand_'s sound was based on a more relevant comparison: to the other available audio-transfers of the _Hammersmith_ audio-track. Not only is there an excellent digital-transfer on Japanese laser-disk of this film, but there is now a firstrate bootleg CD, as well. Compared with these products, the _Bird_ LP is mediocre at best. >One last question, in _The_Garden_, you list the 12" of "The Big Sky" to >have "The Morning Fog" and "Not This Time" as the b-sides. On the 12" >that I own, the "special single mix" of "The Big Sky" replaces "The Morn- >ing Fog." Was this an oversight on your part, or was just the American >12" printed with these songs instead? > >-- woj The latter. As IED said at the beginning of his list, all references are to the original UK editions unless otherwise stated. The UK 12" of _The_Big_Sky_ has _Not_This_Time_ and _The_Morning_Fog_ on its b-side. The U.S. _The_Big_Sky_ 12" has, as you noted, _Not_This_Time_ and _The_ _Big_Sky_(Special_Single_Mix)_. >What the heck is "Sat In Your Lap" about? > >-- Doug MacGowan The song is about "the search for knowledge". Kate has also said it's about "really the lack of knowledge". And she has also said that it deals with laziness, the wish that one could acquire knowledge without going through the effort of learning. You're right, though, that she has never written about the song's meaning in any of her own published articles; all we know about the song comes from her comments in interviews. With one exception: she did say this about the line, "Just when I think I'm King": "I saw this vocal being sung from high on a hill on a windy day. The fool on the hill, the king of the castle...'I must admit, just when I think I'm king.'" As to whether there is a _specific_, narrative context for _Sat_ _In_Your_Lap_, IED doesn't believe there is. Kate has remarked on the difficulty she had coming up with suitable video imagery for the song, because _SIYL_ didn't have an actual storyline. As a result, it didn't lend itself to the kind of linear, cinematic approach Kate obviously favours for videos. Instead, she just "threw together lots of images of knowledge, or the lack of knowledge," and decided to make the video "silly" and "just fun, really." This factor has been, IED believes, an important and consistent determining factor in all of Kate's videos to date. The songs which have featured a straighforward narrative adaptable for film (_There_Goes_ _a_Tenner_, _Cloudbusting_, _Experiment_IV_, _Breathing_, _This_Woman's_ _Work_) have generally turned out to be her darkest and most overtly "serious" videos, whereas (again only generally) songs which dealt with general themes rather than multiple-scene narrative stories have been lighter in tone (_The_Big_Sky_, _Sat_In_Your_Lap_, _Love_and_Anger_, _The_Sensual_World_, _Them_Heavy_People_, etc.) It's not true all the time, of course (IED thinks _Suspended_in_Gaffa_ is one of Kate's most serious videos, though it hardly tells a linear story, and the same is true of _Running_Up_That_ _Hill_), but in general it seems to hold true. >Wait -- I just thought of a way that some videos from _TWS_ might be on >the new video cassette. _The Whole Story_ was released in America >under the Sony label. (I'm not sure how this came about.) Sony >now owns Columbia. So if Sony actually had the rights to the videos >on _TWS_, and didn't license the rights from Capitol/EMI specifically >for that video cassette, then it's possible. Or perhaps Sony could >license them again from Capitol/EMI. I just don't know. Frankly, >I doubt it. > >-- Ed Well, who knows, really? IED was making the assumption that the videos are now under Sony's ownership, not only because of the US Sony-label _TWS_, but because all of Kate's Japanese laser-disks were put out under the Japanese side of Picture Music International, which IED was under the impression belonged to Sony. Anyway, we'll soon see!! > From: csccat!larry@texbell.swbt.com (Larry Spence) > I've gotten some email from folks in the UK who have just picked this up. > Has anyone in the US seen it yet? I've been looking for it to no avail. > I was warned that the price was nearly $80 US! If IED has any info on > where I can locate a copy, I would be grateful. The price at Tower Sunset (West Hollywood, CA) was $64.98 (this week only--they're having a storewide sale through Friday). It's a high price even so, but in IED's opinion well worth it. They had only two boxes, and IED bought one (with his last pennies). > If you listen to stuff like the Orchestra Arcana albums, you'll notice > that the Echo Observatory's abilities have been up to snuff for a few > years now. Yes, but in some respects these new tracks are even more current-sounding. Also, though the Orch. Arc. albums were done at Echo, he presumably took more time on their final sound than he did on these new tracks', so one could expect the Orch. Arc. sound to be a bit more polished. Jorn Barger writes: >Back in November, someone in gaffa conducted a survey of how we all ranked >TSW relative to all Kate's other albums. I don't remember where TSW finally How we _all_ "ranked" it? Speak for yourself, Jorn. IED never partici- pated in that silly sonic beauty contest, and he suspects quite a few others in this group demurred, as well. >So I finally sat down this weekend with all 6 CD's in the changer >set to "Random", on the theory that the unfamiliar play-order would help >bring some objectivity to the investigation... >What I ended up doing, flame if you must, was rating every song to see how >each album fared. The results: Quite apart from the falsity of your premise (why would the mere act of changing the playing order of music you already know very well lend any significant new quantity of objectivity to your judging?), IED is at a loss to understand this obsession some Love-Hounds have to be always comparing _new_ Kate Bush music to _old_ Kate Bush music. Of all the artists in the world working today, Kate is probably the artist for whom such comparisons of relative "quality" afford the _least_ insight to the listener making the comparison. -- Andrew Marvick "Ooh, the thrill and the hurting..."
chris@world.std.COM (Chris'n'Vickie of Kansas City) (01/17/90)
Chris here pawing through the mailbag... |>oug answered this question... >> 1) Why are Werner Herzog and Terry Gilliam given thanks in the >> album's credits? > >Kate likes both of their works. Especially "Brazil" and "Nosferatu". >Kate borrowed some music from Werner Herzog's movie "Nosferatu" and >used it in her song, "Hello Earth". It is also possible Werner Herzog was Kate's connection to H.R. Gieger, designer of "Alien", who built the_Cloudbuster_. Two other things about Kate and Terry Gilliam. First of course is the legendary soundtrack album with Kate's cover of the song "Brazil", and the second is that Kate apparently asked Terry for recommendations for directors for her video of "Cloudbusting" and Terry sent her to Julian Doyle, the editor of "Brazil". We believe Terry also put Kate into contact with Donald Sutherland. There is a rumor that Kate asked Terry to film "The Ninth Wave". I don't know if this is true or not, but the thought of Kate's perfectionism and speed of working, and Terry's similar habits, combined on a project of the scope of "The Ninth Wave",makes the blood run cold. They would still be working on it today, and we would be expecting "KBVI" "real soon now". KROVETZ@cs.umass.EDU asked: >Does anyone know if Kate's appearance on Saturday Night Live >was ever rebroadcast? I think she appeared on the show in 1979. >I've never seen it in any of the reruns, and it didn't appear >during the 15th anniversary show. Are there legal problems >involved with rebroadcasting it? It was repeated once during that season, one month before I got my first VCR (aarrrggh). The show was hosted by Eric Idle of Monty Python, who introduced her by saying (if my memory serves me correctly) "I've brought someone with me from England, she's very wonderful, Kate Bush" This show has been released on video-cassette with Kate cut out, (even though her picture is on the box), and the same holds true with the syndicated versions of the show on Nick-at-Night and other places. In order to make the shows fit a sixty minute time slot, everything good had to be cut, leaving only bees and cheese-burgers. If you look closely at the closing credits of the video, you can see Kate in a trench coat, her costume for _Them Heavy People_, standing with the cast. dsac!discg1!T.Atwell@cis.ohio-state.edu, asked about British videos: >One last question: When stating the video is not useful, please explain your >meaning? (does it not play at all? is the sound warbled?) British video is on the PAL (Phase Alternate Lines) system, American video is on the NTSC (National Television Standards Commission, or as the British say, Never Twice the Same Colour). The result when playing a British videotape on an American VCR is unwatchable. Alternating light and dark lines, chipmunk sound, and nothing else. If you knew exactly what was on the tape you could make a guess as to what you were seeing. Why do they have a different system? ... if you want to know, e-mail for my free pamphlet "NTSC - Doggie-doo-doo or what?" JROSSI@AAMRL.AF.MIL asked: >mentioned Alice Cooper and Sun Arise. Pardon my ignorance but that >reference went way over my head. I don't have a problem with Love it to >Death (one of my favorite albums of the period) but I don't follow the >Sun Arise cover thing. Has somebody else, more recently perhaps, covered >Sun Arise? > >Second, just out of curiousity, did Burning Airlines get its name from >the Brian Eno tune? If so, the incompleted "give you so much more" is Kate heard Rolf Harris'_Sun Arise_ as a kid and it served as a partial inspiration for the song _The Dreaming_. Rolf played digeridoo on _The Dreaming_. Yes to number two. They quoted the song in a flyer they sent with a T-shirt we ordered years ago. Chris of Chris'n'Vickie of Kansas City chris@world.std.com PS. Our address may soon be changing to katefans@world.std.com We will post other paths as soon as we figure enough of this stuff out.
IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (02/10/90)
To: Love-Hounds
From: Andrew Marvick (IED)
Subject: Mailbag
Jorn Barger's observations about _The_Wicker_Man_ are much
appreciated by IED. It does sound like a likely source for
the subject matter of Kate's song _Wow_. IED recalls how years
went by before someone asked Kate whether the line "Put out the
light/Then put out the light" in _Blow_Away_ wasn't a reference to
_Othello_, whereupon she admitted happily that, sure enough, it was.
How many such "hidden" subjects, highly specific but never
volunteered by Kate, still wait to be unearthed by fans?
Speaking of which, IED now agrees with whoever it was who
suggested that Kate's song with the lines "Surrender into the roses/
Go back home under the posies" was properly entitled not _Camilla_ but
_Carmilla_, in reference to Sheridan LeFanu's vampire novella. The lyrics
strongly suggest imagery from the book.
As for :>oug's allusion to a "rumor" that Kate "had a crush" on
Lindsay Kemp, IED wonders where our Pseudo-Moderator comes up with this
kind of irrelevant and frivolous crap? It's the first IED has ever heard
of such a "rumor", and he hopes the last, barring the presentation of any
actual evidence.
-- AndrewIED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU (04/12/90)
To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag Thanks to Cindy for her informative postings re Trio B. and IED's reminder. IED should also mention that a group called Balkana did tour the U.S. last year. This group consisted of four male instrumental- ists and the Trio Bulgarka, except that Eva Georgieva (the eldest of the three singers) was ill and stayed home. This, then, was more or less the core of the group of musicians featured on the Balkana LP. IED believes "Balkana" was a name chosen by the musicians in conjunction with Joe Boyd, the producer of that album. Anyway, IED heard them and they were _great_. If they tour the U.S. again, you are all strongly urged to hear themn--it's a more intimate experience (not better or worse) than the Bulgarian...Choir's concerts, because Balkana play at tiny little folk venues, not big halls. Incidentally, the Bulgarian...Choir were on Johnny Carson last week, and sang two or three songs from Volume One. By the way, there are now two volumes of "Bulgarian Polyphony" CDs out (Japanese imports), featuring a _different_ but very similar- looking female choir. Has anyone heard these recordings? They look promising. A note for enthusiasts of the work of the group Japan and its ex-members: Steve Jansen and Richard Barbieri have contributed to a 1989 CD by the Italian female pop artist Alice. Also Sylvian, Karn, Jansen and Barbieri are said to be working in a London studio together, and the word is that Japan may be permanently re-forming. So far it's all rumour, however. Bill writes: > In a transcribed interview, IED writes: >> Perhaps that's why her self-produced videos have >> been so successful. You won't find Bush up there lip-synching her >> songs in lingerie with jump-cuts and smoke-bombs. > > Actually, you can call me disgusting, depraved, and sick, but I'd kinda like > to see KaTe lip-synching her songs in lingerie with jump-cuts and smoke- > bombs. Just once. > > -- Bill (wms@sam.cs.cmu.edu) IED wants to re-emphasize that it was the interviewer who made the original comment--IED merely transcribed it. This is important because the comment isn't strictly speaking true! Kate has done a great deal of lip-synching, both in official videos and elsewhere: not only in the past, but in the recent _LAA_ and _TSW_. She used tons of smoke for her Tour of Life, as well as in the videos _Army_Dreamers_ and _The_Big_Sky_. And while not actually in lingerie in any videos, she _has_ been known to wear some pretty skimpy outfits in her films: there's _Wuthering_Heights_ (white version), _Babooshka_, two of the European lip-synchs of _Babooshka_, _The_Wedding_List_ (both versions), _Breathing_, etc. Then, too, Kate has been known to use her share of jump cuts on occasion: remember _Army_Dreamers_, for example, or the second half of _The_Big_Sky_, both of which feature a lot of fast, tricky editing. It's true that the artistic aims of Kate Bush, video-maker, are far different than those of Madonna or other MTV icons. But it's inaccurate to claim that Kate's video "language" is in itself radically purer or more virtuous. It's not. She just has more significant things to say in them. -- Andrew Marvick, looking for a clean room at a reasonable rate
orion@WPI.WPI.EDU (Kenneth G Descoteaux) (04/13/90)
In article <9004111858.AA14964@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> IED0DXM@OAC.UCLA.EDU writes: > Kate has done a great deal of lip-synching, both in official videos >and elsewhere: not only in the past, but in the recent _LAA_ and _TSW_. >-- Andrew Marvick, looking for a clean room at a reasonable rate I was completely surprised when watching a rented copy of _Kate Bush: Live at Hammersmith Odeon_ for the first time a month or so ago. (I should have my very own copy shortly, thanks goto Dave Armstrong for making the arrangements!) I was watching the show and identifying which songs the various clips in _WOW_ (v2) had come from. And then it came to _Hammer Horror_ .... She didn't sing it. She didn't even lip-synch it! Pre-recorded vocals (& music?) came from the sound-system while KaTe danced/mimed/acted out the visual element... Can't say I've ever heard of anyone else using a pre-recorded lead vocal track at a live concert before! (It was GREAT) Ken Ken Descoteaux orion@wpi.wpi.edu
dbk@MIMSY.UMD.EDU (Dan Kozak) (04/13/90)
From article <9004122315.AA11725@wpi.wpi.edu>, by orion@WPI.WPI.EDU (Kenneth G Descoteaux): > Can't say I've ever heard of anyone else using a pre-recorded lead > vocal track at a live concert before! (It was GREAT) Queen used to use the album track for the middle of "Bohemian Rhapsody" when they performed live, but last I heard they had acquired some Harmonizers and were able to actually sing enough of the parts that (with the electronic enhancement) it could sort of work. -- #dan Clever: dbk@mimsy.umd.edu | "For I was rolled in water, Not-so-clever: uunet!mimsy!dbk | I was rolled out past the pier" - MoB
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (07/01/90)
Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag Richard Caldwell writes: > Did I miss something or were their _no_ live performances of material > from _The Sensual World_ during its "promotion"? This is a grave > disappointment. An appearance on New Visions or MTV Unplugged is the > very least I would have expected. The closest thing IED has seen was the lip-synch of _TWW_ that Kate performed on _Wogan_. That performance is very hard to distinguish from a genuine live performance, so precise is Kate's simulation. Kate did in addition appear (perhaps more than once) on French TV a short while ago, and IED has wanted to learn ever since what happened with that. Could our French KorrespondenT(s) _please_ give us an update soon? Thanks. "MTV Unplugged" is about the last place IED would expect to see Kate Bush perform live. > I believe that the increasing involvement of Del Palmer in Kate's work > did not have a positive effect on _The Sensual World_. Perhaps even the > contrary. IED doesn't know on what you have based this opinion, Richard. Remember that Kate, not Del, produced _The_Sensual_World_ and all its attendant b-sides. Also, although Del's contribution to _TSW_ may have been slightly greater than in earlier years, it can't have been a major change. Del worked extremely closely with Kate on _Hounds_of_Love_ and _The_Ninth_Wave_, as well. Remember also that Kate isn't the only discerning musician to have endorsed Del's skill as an engineer; Nigel Kennedy singled out Del as the best engineer he had ever worked with. Perhaps you could be a little more specific in your criticism? > And speaking of Andy, someone's query as to what IED stands for is met > with the usual silence. A friend of mine to whom I forward > Love-Hounds and who I'll call Cynthia (because that's her name) > suggests that it might stand for "In Excelsis Deo". If that is indeed > the meaning of "IED" I leave it the reader to decide how it's intended... There are three equally valid explanations of IED's acronym, Richard. The first is that it has no significance at all. The second is that it has a deep personal and private significance for IED himself, one which he will never be able to share with others. Your friend Cynthia has _almost_ hit upon the third--she has all but the gender correct. The correct (third alternate) explanation is: "In Excelsis Dea". It should be clear, therefore, that the acronym does not refer to your humble KorrespondenT... -- Andrew Marvick "i found it in a locket...i hiDE It in my pocket..."
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/02/90)
Really-From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu To: Love-Hounds From: Andrew Marvick (IED) Subject: Mailbag There are many other recordings of the Irish folksong "My Lagan Love", including a famous early version by the great John McCormick; a version by the artsinger (pure soprano in classical manner) Angela Pearson with harp accompaniment on a Hebrides album called _My_Lagan_Love_; a rockier version by Maura O'Connell; and, if IED is not mistaken, a version by A.L. "Burt" Lloyd; as well as an instrumental version by the Irish band The Wolftones. Jeff Burka describes a twelve-inch of _Hounds_of_Love_ which woj concludes is the EMI-America pressing. The official _HoL_ 12" from EMI-UK featured a mix called "Alternative Hounds". It is quite different from the album version, mainly in that Kate has removed the lead vocal and replaced it with a new ad-libbed lead vocal which runs in counterpoint to the original; as well as a new background multiply-overdubbed backing vocal by Kate, singing a lot of what sounds like "Diddly-ah-dee, diddly-ah-dah"s. The EMI-America twelve-inch was made mainly for radio promotional use, and featured as its "extended mix" a U.S.-engineered version which is simply the album mix with one verse looped in a second time, in order to give the song another thirty seconds of playing time. Obviously Kate had nothing to do with this. -- Andrew Marvick
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/02/90)
Really-From: mailrus!gatech!mit-eddie!eddie.mit.edu!henrik@uunet.UU.NET (Larry DeLuca) Sorry, Andy! There are at least *two* EMI-America versions then. I have a 12" "Hounds of Love" from EMI-America that has the "Alternative Hounds of Love", "My Lagan Love", and "Burning Bridge". Perhaps this is the Canadian one? larry...
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (08/03/90)
Really-From: Michael Lunney <melunney@water.waterloo.edu> In article <1990Aug2.014119.15149@eddie.mit.edu> larry writes: ) > >Sorry, Andy! There are at least *two* EMI-America versions then. > >I have a 12" "Hounds of Love" from EMI-America that has the "Alternative >Hounds of Love", "My Lagan Love", and "Burning Bridge". Perhaps this is >the Canadian one? > Yes, I think Alternative Hounds/My Lagan Love/Burning Bridge must be the Canadian version. I picked up a copy of the 12" EP for $1.99 at the UW campus record store. They seem to have dozens of copies of this release, and of The Big Sky/Not This Time/The Morning Fog EP, also for only $1.99. I don't know what the Canadian versions of Running Up That Hill and Cloudbusting have though. Does anyone know if it's possible to get all the B-sides to the UK releases from the Canadian B-sides? Such as The Handsome Cabin Boy? ---mike =========================== melunney@water.waterloo.edu
Love-Hounds-request@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (10/24/90)
Really-From: Andrew B Marvick <abm4@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu> IED is gratified although a little unnerved as well to discover that his mere presence in this group is enough to attract the admirable (but alas fickle) Dave Hsu back to our midst. IED hopes Dave will see that it is not IED's participation here that counts, but the timeliness with which information about Kate--such as the news about a London convention November 17--is made available. Neil Calton, our much appreciated Senior British KorrespondenT, asks about the Babooshka demos which show up on the _If_You_Could_See_ _Me_Fly_ CD bootleg. No-one that IED has heard from knows anything for certain about these tracks, Neil; but IED did hear (he forgets where, now) once that about six or seven years ago Kate made a guest appearance on a unique BBC radio programme in which some recording artist each week came on to explain the genesis of one or more of their better known recordings. I was told that Kate had been on and played excerpts from demos of _Babooshka_ and _Sat_In_Your_Lap_ (not necessarily on the same day). This would jibe well with the incompleteness of the excerpts as they have come down to us on bootlegs--if Kate only played part of each demo, the boot versions would have to fade out early, as they do. IED has more doubts about the existence of a similar show featuring _Sat_In_Your_Lap_. It seems more likely that someone simply mixed up the story of that song's early incarnation as a demo; or that someone had in mind that bit of soundtrack from the _Looking_Good,_ Feeling_Fit_ television programme, which included the rhythm-track from _SIYL_, without instrumentation, as accompaniment for Kate's dance rehearsal. -- Andrew "WE'RE GOING TO THE KATE BUSH kONVENtION!" Marvick P.S.: Another praKTice quiz question (difficult): Name at least thirteen images of flight associated with Kate. (birdsong in _Deeper_Understanding_ and _And_Dream_of_Sheep..._, _Ne_T'enfuis_pas_; _Night_of_the_Swallow_; _Kite_; Harry the Dragonfly; Kate's dove earrings; Kate as bat (back of _Never_For_ _Ever_); Kate as swan (_Delius_ video); references to "rolling over on the great big cloud" and to Superman, the Wright brothers, and astronauts in _The_Big_Sky_ (song and video); space travel in _Hello_Earth_ and _Keeping_Me_Waiting_; rocket-flight in _Rocket's_ _Tail_; etc.)
katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris Williams) (02/11/91)
Chris here, Neal R Caldwell, Ii asked: > Did everyone miss the fact that the "nightmare" in my last post is > actually a description of an honest to goodness KT appearance? I'm > dissapointed! Fortunately not too many folks have seen this little gem. What Richard described is an embarrassment to Kate from _very_ early in her carrer. It is possible that Kate's "control fixation" may date from this appearance on Japanese TV. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Willett posted: > I have noticed on my copy of the Lionheart compact disk that there are > several places in which there is fairly severe distortion of the music. and Kevin Kinsey replied: >> it has been my experience that the domestic (read U.S. pressing) of many >> CD's appear to be of inferior quality. When I got the boxed set and heard >> the import of TSW, it blew the domestic pressing out the window and around >> the block! This is also the case with Peter Gabriel's Security disk. American CD's of English artists are never made from the original master tapes due to the obvious risks of transporting irreplacable masters across the ocean. So, many tapes were made from so-called "safety masters" or dubs of the masters. It's not possible to make the fragile glass CD masters in England and transport those either. Another problem with some master tapes is that U-Matic (3/4") video-tapes are used as the mastering medium for CDs and I believe that PAL versions are used in English studios. Still another problem many older CDs share is that the sub-master tapes were "pre-EQed" for the preceived limitations of the LP medium. All in all, any given recording will sound better when produced in the artist's home country. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ronald Hill wrote: >> A friend of mine let me borrow his set of Carriad Kate's and there is >> a reprint of an article in issue 12 called Bush-Whack. It has a photo of >> Kate telling off the photographer with Del holding her back. Supposidly, >> the photographer bumped into her and Kate responded by giving him a swift >> kick. >> Does anybody know anything else about this. This is the first time I have >> ever seen evidence of Kate being mad at someone (aside from the "Pratt" >> interview) and I find it very interesting. On my friends copy, you cannot >> see the photo very well, does anybody know the source and if it is >> reprinted clearer somewhere??? For those of you who haven't read the >> article, the "injured" photographer said " I didn't think anyone that >> small would be able to kick so hard".... and Yli-Krekola Perttu Jaakko responded: > This description fits to the Kate picture in People Magazine (UK), > March 25, 1990. Kate is holding a colourful bag in her right hand. > The text below the picture says: > > "Kate Bush is restrained from demonstrating to a photographer > how it feels to be Bush-whacked" I have _very_ serious doubts that Kate has ever hit _anyone_! The previously mentioned Night Flight interview was described by Kris'n'Peter of Homeground as "..the angriest she's been that we've ever seen!" English tabloids are not above inventing news events; a picture of nice, sweet Kate Bush decking someone would be on a par with Mother Theresa kicking an orphan. Rereading the above makes me even more sure. Kate would not react violently to someome "bumping into" her. That said, Kate went through a very emotional time last year, with the death of two close friends, and without checking a timeline or seeing the picture she may have come from a funeral, and have been distraught. The asshole paparatzzi (sp?) may have had the thought in their pointy little heads "hey, let's get a photo of Kate Bush crying!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kirstin Hargie asks the eternal question: > How tall IS Kate anyway???? Well in the absence of any reliable evidence I'll say 4' 11 1/2". Kris of Homeground claims that Kate not that short, but Kris is not tall either. Peter looked like a giant in photos until I met him in person and found that he's about the same height as I am (6'). He only looks tall when surrounded by other English people. :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jorn said: > also, i ran into bill from the record exchange on the train on my way home > last night, and he'd just acquired (from reckless) for $18 (!!) a limited > edition picture-disc interview cd in a larger box with several strange > photos of kate in front of some waxworks astronauts!?!? The photo appears on page 84 of "Kate Bush - A Visual Documentary" (prob- ably the best single Kate book to own) and looks to be from the shoot of "The Big Sky". One of the astronaut costumes was worn by Dave Cross of Homeground I believe. Incidentally, Peter F-M is the first person in that video. Chris Williams of Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago katefans@chinet.chi.il "My music sophisticated? Well, I'd rather you say that than turd-like!"-Kate
franceee@pebbles.sct.clarkson.edu (Eric E France) (02/11/91)
Chris sez: > Chris here, > [stuff] > > American CD's of English artists are never made from the original master > tapes due to the obvious risks of transporting irreplacable masters across > the ocean. So, many tapes were made from so-called "safety masters" or dubs > of the masters. It's not possible to make the fragile glass CD masters in > England and transport those either. Another problem with some master tapes > is that U-Matic (3/4") video-tapes are used as the mastering medium for CDs > and I believe that PAL versions are used in English studios. Still another > problem many older CDs share is that the sub-master tapes were "pre-EQed" > for the preceived limitations of the LP medium. All in all, any given > recording will sound better when produced in the artist's home country. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gack! AAccck! Barfff! Haven't these morons ever heard of DIGITAL STORAGE? If they have CD masters in Europe then they a have already done the A-D conversion (surely?). They could transfer the data over to any of a MILLION FORMS of tape, disk, eprom, core, etc etc and ship that (or just spit it over the PHONE LINES!!!) Sufficient coding algorithms would make the chances of the slightest garble virtually IMPOSSIBLE (damn there goes that caps lock again). ????????? <-- mass confusion Eric France francee@fshvmfk1.iinus1.ibm.com franceee@pebbles.sct.clarkson.edu
abm4@cunixa.cc.columbia.EDU (Andrew B Marvick) (03/05/91)
"They said they were very ill" is not correct, alas. Try listening to it forwards instead of backwards--even though it may sound backwards that way... Yes, _The_Kick_Inside_ is Kate's first album. She has released a total of seven albums to date, including _The_Whole_Story_, which is actually just a greatest-hits package. Six studio LPs total. However, with the release of the 8-CD _This_Woman's_Work_ boxed set, one may more accurately say that there are a total of _nine_ official KT albums--the seven LPs (_The_Kick_Inside_, _Lionheart_, _Never_For_Ever_, _The_Dreaming_, _Hounds_of_Love_, _The_Whole_Story_, and _The_Sensual_World_), but also the two CDs (_This_Woman's_Work_ Vols. I and II) found in the boxed set (three LPs in the vinyl box) which contain nearly all of her hitherto-uncollected rarities and b-sides. This is without mentioning the thirty-two known demo recordings which may be found through various semi-legal and illegal sources; the soundtrack of the _Live_at_Hammersmith_Odeon_ video; various unique bits of music found only on oft-dubbed video-clips; and the many unofficial recordings of some of the Tour of Life performances of 1979; as well as the small collection of Kate guest-appearances on other artists' albums, most of which are available on compact disk. Who is IED, you ask. IED represents, in this space (and there only), Andrew Marvick, a longtime, devoted Kate Bush fan who hails originally from Los Angeles, and whose increasingly occasional contributions to this group are only arguably informative enough to merit your tolerance of his annoying insistence on referring to himself in the third person singular. As for the implicit corollary question, "What does IED stand for?", IED will paraphrase Kate's reply to a perhaps not unrelated question about the identity of the "model" for Houdini on the cover of _The_Dreaming_: "That's for him to know and you to find out. Ken asks whether this group allows for discussion of subjects other than KT. The answer is yes, of course. There is no actual moderator, only a (very fine) Pseudo-Moderator. But please try to remember that the predominant focus of this particular discussion group is and (IED hopes) will remain Kate. IED appreciated the reference to the Vermolors book. Yes, that is the correct spelling! The text of the _Visual_Documentary_ book _is_ good, and _not_ riddled with factual errors, unlike all other unofficial biographies of Kate. IED doesn't see why everyone is so willing to give away the precise locations of the "KT" signs on Kate's albums! It should be enough that the seeker is assured that they do indeed appear somewhere on each of Kate's nine albums (see above for list). As for the symbol on the cover of _The_Sensual_World_: you may find it, in more or less accurate form, in a variety of spots, including the flower itself, Kate's hair and her collar-bone. But there is only _one_ spot where it _definitely_ appears, and where with proper lighting and preferably a maginfying glass the telltale signs of manual alteration of the image can be detected. Look in the background on the front, on the right side--and for the best results, use the original UK vinyl-LP cover as your source. It really can't be seen at all on the CD booklet, and it's not very clear even on the US LP cover. The KT sign also appears on _The_Whole_Story_, but again, only in the original UK vinyl edition: it's found only on the vinyl disk itself... As for its appearance on _Never_For_Ever_, try looking at the stem of the rose. Finally, you really shouldn't need coordinates to find the KT sign on the back outer-sleeve cover of _Hounds_of_Love_. But remember that nobody said it had to be exactly right side up. As for the Iron Maiden cover: is it not possible that the KT sign was intended by the group to refer to the Knights Templar, whose claim to the symbol pre-dates Kate's by several centuries? Until solid evidence can be produced to the contrary, IED will dismiss as nonsense the assertions that Kate asked her brother to stop "evangelizing" about Gurdjieff and that her father is a serious student of Gurdjieff's principles. Neither the old yellow interview-CD LP-size boxed "set", nor the new, white, seven-inch-single-size interview-CD boxed "set", contains the "Abbey Road" interview (which, attentive Love-Hounds will remember, is actually the Capital Radio interview of November 1985 which was originally conducted by Tony Myatt for the Romford KT convention). -- Andrew Marvick, revving the engine of the ol' 22-wheeler...
abm4@cunixa.cc.columbia.EDU (Andrew B Marvick) (03/08/91)
Michael Graham asks: What are reasonable prices for the KT books _Vis._Doc._ and _TWS_? In IED's opinion, $25.00 is an acceptable price for either, though if price be based on textual validity _TWS_ is worth about $2.00. _KBComplete_, the part-music, part-chronology, part-lyrics collection, is also worth about (but certainly not much more than) $25.00. Don't go forking over $40 or $50 for any Kate Bush book (other than _Cathy_, which is really worth its $75 tag, in IED's opinion) on the grounds that it has become "rare". Only the first Vermorel book and the bootleg collection of magazine articles are really hard to find in the U.S. nowadays, and even they aren't worth that kind of money. Anyone disagree? What was Kate's opinion of punk? She several times acclaimed punk's "energy" and aggressive, "male" spirit. In at least one interview she explicitly praised Johnny Rotten and the Sex Pistols for their tremendous drive and energy--though she never, to IED's knowledge, had anything specific to say about their social/political message(s). She particularly admired The Stranglers in their first three albums, and mentioned Hugh Cornwell at least once. She also mentioned (though this hardly qualifies as real punk) The Boomtown Rats and The Rich Kids (the latter group was a shortlived new-wave group on the EMI label led by not-yet-Ultravox-singer Midge Ure). There are undoubtedly some live recordings of Kate and the KT Bush Band's pub performances--in the possession of the Bush family, alas! IED has never heard even a hint that any such recordings have started making the underground rounds. But then, there was no real hope of getting any circa-'73 home demo recordings before 1988, either... Rowan Atkinson was just a comedian whom Kate greatly admired, and she got along well with him and greatly enjoyed singing the duet with him at the Comic Relief shows. There's not (apparently) any more to it than that. The song is available on an import LP (or was, anyway). -- Andrew Marvick
abm4@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Andrew B Marvick) (04/23/91)
Hi, everyone. IED is sorry to have been silent during the last week.
Seems while he was away a lot of fuss was stirred up by this woefully
suspicious and spectacularly humorless new bunch of "fans" out in Ohio.
IED can only express thanks to Ed Suranyi and Chris Williams for
showing the kind of patience with these people that IED is incapable
of. At the risk of offending others out there, IED is compelled by
conscience to say that, in his opinion, anyone who could possibly have taken
Chris's piece seriously--is seriously deficient. IED fully supports
"Homeground" in its coverage of this issue, and in fact he thinks this
"new American fanzine", as well as the PMRC, got fairer treatment
from "Homeground", Ed, Chris--and above all, Kate!--than they deserve.
Love-Hounds--and any other party, for that matter--could probably
manage to extort an acknowledgement from Kate on tape if they went
about it as relentlessly and obnoxiously as these Ohioans evidently
saw fit to do. But even Love-Hounds has some sense of decorum.
To answer a couple of questions posed by other Love-Hounds: first,
Kate's brother John Carder Bush _does_indeed_ appear in a Kate Bush
video--two, in fact. Have another look at the astronaut(s) in "The
Big Sky"; and check out the staff at that lovely little shop,
Music For Pleasure...
As IED interprets the video of "Hounds of Love", Kate (who
directed the clip herself) wanted to make a tribute to Hitchcock's
British films of the 1930s, particularly "The Thirty-nine Steps".
Far from having no story, "Hounds of Love" is an organized little
tale of love and trust. In the beginning Kate's heroine is a demure
and withdrawn loner, visiting a museum (of a rather odd sort--perhaps
a museum of science and industry?). (By the way, keep an eye out for
Hitch himself in this early scene.) The hero, who plays Robert Donat's
character (or a parallel thereof) in "The Thirty-nine Steps", comes in
looking for a way to escape the clutches of the law. He clamps Kate's
character to his wrist with handcuffs and rushes off into the night
with her, with the authorities hot on their heels. The reference here
is to Richard Hannay's ploy of fettering Madeleine Carroll to him
with a pair of handcuffs, whereupon he takes her off with him
into the night, on the Scottish hills and dales. They
take refuge at a pub (or dance hall of some kind) where a conga
dance is taking place--a typical Hitchcock crowd scene. By the end
of this scene Kate's character, who was initially resentful of the dangerous
stranger, has warmed to the freedom from solitude and convention that he
represents, and (following the hero's recapture and momentary second
escape from the police) she herself snaps the handcuffs back on
between them before she leads them out into the darkness to renew
their flight. The video also recalls (at least in the outdoor scene
and the first few seconds of the video itself, before the song begins)
the introductory reference to the movie "Night of the Demon" (aka
"Curse of the Demon"). Also note Paddy's dual role (at the museum
and in the public house), and a great many other fascinating little
details worth discovering. IED's personal view is that this video has
been badly underrated, and it's about time it got the attention it merits.
Ron Hill: Your friend suggests that Wilhelm Reich might have
suffered from Alzheimer's disease or "some <other> kind of problem"
during the last years of his research? Well, he certainly
suffered from a problem--namely, severe clinical psychotic delusions.
His last papers deal primarily with the activities of unidentified
flying objects, the proliferation of blue orgonotic energy rays and any
number of equally lunatic subjects. What is so remarkable--even beautiful--
about these late writings, given their patently insane arguments, is the
appearance they give of being thoroughly documented. (That
most of Reich's footnotes are self-referential by this
time is understandable--outside of the Orgone Institute there
weren't too many independent scientific experiments being conducted
on the effects of Deadly Orgone Radiation!)
Just a note about "Be Kind to My Mistakes": the original
version, which appeared on the soundtrack album of the movie
"Castaway", is considerably different from the version which came
out as a b-side in support of "The Sensual World" album. The early
version is a little rougher, a little more "live" in sound quality,
and is a good deal longer in playing-time. Kate edited out some
twenty-four bars of music (not verses, but instrumental passages) when
she prepared the recording for release in 1989/90. There are some
wonderful moments of playing by Kate's musicians on the original,
and the extra length gives the song a much different atmosphere
than its later CD mix. On the other hand, the "dryer" sound
of the CD version, as well as some tinkering with the rhythm
track, make it fascinating to listen to as well.
Finally, a big thankyou to Andy Semple for his news about _HG_ #41.
As wonderful as it sounds (about Kate's continued plans to concertize,
and about the plan to put out a single by year's end), IED cannot help
but remind himself and others that _we_have_heard_this_sort_of_thing_
_before_! Nevertheless...
-- Andrew Marvick
..."It is happening again. It is happening again!"
nrc@cbema.att.COM (Neal R Caldwell, Ii) (04/23/91)
From article <CMM.0.90.0.672344023.abm4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>, by abm4@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Andrew B Marvick): > > IED can only express thanks to Ed Suranyi and Chris Williams for > showing the kind of patience with these people that IED is incapable > of. At the risk of offending others out there, IED is compelled by > conscience to say that, in his opinion, anyone who could possibly have taken > Chris's piece seriously--is seriously deficient. I'm sure T. R. Somerville of _Still Breathing_ will accept your warmest regards. > IED fully supports > "Homeground" in its coverage of this issue, and in fact he thinks this > "new American fanzine", as well as the PMRC, got fairer treatment > from "Homeground", Ed, Chris--and above all, Kate!--than they deserve. Aah, interesting theory: the fairness of one's treatment should depend on the acceptability of his ideas. Sorta makes the PMRC look like left wing radicals. "Don't drive too slowly." Richard Caldwell AT&T Network Systems att!cbnews!nrc nrc@cbnews.att.com