REWOICC@ERENJ.BITNET (the pragmatic romantic) (04/29/91)
john vosten informs us that _backsides_ (which had originally been released
as a bootleg lp) is now out as a cd as well. most interesting sez woj...
he also asks what other bootleg cd of KaTe's exists in the world. i know of
the following:
_burning desires_ - a rather poor transfer of the audio track of the hammer-
smith film to compact disc. as the sound is quite poor, the best thing about
this is the picture of KaTe on the backside of the jewel case insert - she
looks much like an english school girl.
_KaTe bush live_ - a rather excellent transfer of the audio track of the
hammersmith laserdisc to cd. sound is crystal clear and quite wonderful. also
worthwhile for the inclusion of the performance of "hounds of love" from the
secret policeman's third ball, the performance of "breathing" from the comic
relief shows (although, unfortunately, the duet with rowan atkinson, "do bears
... in the woods?" is not) and the soundtrack mix of "this woman's work".
_if you could see me fly_ and _passing through air_ - two cds that contain
the cathy demos and the _the kick inside_ demos. sound quality is so-so, but
that is a function of the original recordings made by KaTe. the two discs
were released by chapter one records in, i believe, germany. _if you could
see me fly_ has the two demos of "babooshka" and _passing through air_ has
"another day" from the bbc special, _KaTe_.
_practice makes perfect_ - the newest cd that i know of. conatins all of the
cathy demos and the _the kick inside_ demos on one cd (excepting "organic
acid"). has a beautiful drawing of Kate on the jewel insert. no additional
tracks though.
prices will vary from place to place. for instancee, _passing through air_
has been spotted for $15 in germany, $25 on the east coast of the states and
$80 on the west coast. depends primarily on the legal pressure in the area,
the location relative to where it was imported from and the greed of the shop
owner.
andy gough asks about the label who released _practice makes perfect_. as i
recall (i haven't bought this yet), it is a french label called berklee. i
think though that this is a cover-up as that label is, from what i under-
stand, a "legal" one. i will check on this if you wish...
as for andy's questions regarding bootlegging cds, i'd like to point out that
it is much cheaper to make cds now than lps and that many production houses
do not care what is on the cd as long as they get paid. even the cost of run-
ning your own production plant is not that astronomical either. i have heard
of a small place in philadelphia that will press a short run (say 1000) of cds
for very little money. the problem with bootlegging lies not in pressing the
music, but obtaining it (unless it is concert footage which is easy to come
by).
--
woj zengineer/fegmaniac/dj for hire/goofball "one of the band told me last
work: rewoicc@erenj.bitnet night that music was all that
play: woiccare@pebbles.sct.clarkson.edu he's got in his life" -KT
-- society of dark birds: fegmaniax-request@pebbles.sct.clarkson --ed@das.llnl.GOV (Edward J. Suranyi) (04/30/91)
In article <9104291453.AA23485@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> you write: >_KaTe bush live_ - a rather excellent transfer of the audio track of the >hammersmith laserdisc to cd. sound is crystal clear and quite wonderful. also >worthwhile for the inclusion of the performance of "hounds of love" from the >secret policeman's third ball, >woj zengineer/fegmaniac/dj for hire/goofball "one of the band told me last Uh, did you mean "'Running Up That Hill' from the Secret Policeman's Third Ball", or "'Hounds of Love' from the 1986 BPI Awards"? Because if you meant what you said, then this is something utterly new. Ed ed@das.llnl.gov
Henry_Burdett_Messenger@cup.portal.COM (05/05/91)
I've been reading this newsgroup for a long time, and I figure it's about
time I contribute something :-)
With all this talk of bootlegs, and the humanistic and philosophical issues
involved, I transcribed this article, which you may find interesting...
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Bootlegging, Royalties and the Moment
Robert Fripp
There are two sides to bootlegging: professional and amateur. I recognize
that at its real level music belongs to everyone. In fact, the ownership
of music is a fairly recent phenomenon. It began in the 19th century, and
was firmed up in the 20th by the Copyright Act of 1911, the formation of
the PRS in 1914, the Composer's Guild (straight) in 1944, the
Songwriters' Guild (popular) in 1947 and the Copyright Act of 1956. All
these reinforced the notion of music as personal property; this is our
market background.
Given that background, if money is to be made by the sale of my work then
I wish to receive my share of it. All of the sex scenes in "Emanuelle"
feature music lifted from "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part II." Following a
lengthy legal action, my rights as composer have been acknowledged and a
settlement made out of court. The implication that receiving royalties
for one's work is inherently bad I find very queer and somehow peculiarly
English. I espouse, through the Drive to 1981, "Action in the market place
but not governed by the value of the market place." This presents all the
dilemmas regarding money that any sane soul might need. Having lived in
the States, I've seen some of the contradictions of a commercial culture,
the other side of the famed "American Dream." And I'm familiar with
Proudhon's "property is theft," communalistic philosophy and praxis, and
some of the arguments of the Leveller, Ranter and Digger movements of the
17th century -- all reactions against our widespread belief in the
sanctity of private property.
Facing all the hazardous contradictions borne by that sanctity, the real
issue is surely: what might one do with one's royalties? The principle I
follow is that proprietary advantage involves proprietary responsibility;
that is, if one makes more money that one needs, there is an opportunity
to use it socially. Different religions traditionally recommend giving 10
to 15% of one's income to charities; the church tithe was compulsary; our
tax system is _supposed_ to enforce the proprietary responsibility, by
involuntarily redistributing income more equally than it is divvied up,
willy-nilly, by market forces. I recognize that different kinds of people
want -- and therefore feel they "need" -- different standards of living,
and that mine is higher than some and lower than others. The wide
difference between class levels seems queer, the exploitation and social
pretension ot involves is offensive.
What I've chosen to do is to support a farming project in Cornwall, an
adult education experiement in the States and a naturopathic hospital in
England. The hospital is bankrupt, the farm and school are in serious
trouble. The League of Gentlemen has a deficit of $30,000; my house has
no hot water and the rain leaks through the roof; and, keep in mind, I
wish to remain financially independent of the industry so that my musical
choices remain personal and musical. And then there are those
concert-goers and record-buyers and ideologues and "fans" who criticize
artists who seek full royalty payment for their work and who try to halt
exploitation of same by profiteering bootleggers. Forgive me but I find
their posture exasperatingly naive.
Conversely, I have great sympathy for amateur bootleggers. With them,
enthusiasm for the music is the motive. After all, are not the best
Charlie Parker tracks live bootlegs? I also know quite a few performers
who don't mind, such as the Instant Automatons in England [and the
Grateful Dead -- hbm], who have gone so far as to provide a facility
wherein audience members may hookup their cassette recorders to the
hall's mix-board. Admirable, but not for me. My views are generally known
to my audience; to bring a recorder is a deliberate violation of the
ground rules, at best a violation of courtesy: it's rather like taking
notes of a personal conversation to circulate of publish later. This from
someone who's been a steady fixture on bootleg lists for over seven
years.
Now we come to the humanistic and philosophical reasons why I oppose the
furtive taping of live music. I am seeking the quality of attention, of
being in the moment without expectation and without history, the moment
between the human _being_ and the human animal behavioral psychology so
terrifyingly describes. As Blake put it, "He who bends himself a joy/Does
the winged life destroy." Experiencing a piece of music repeatedly in an
active state has its own qualities and merits. On tape, music is music:
good, bad, lively, lethargic, spirited or whatever. In live performance,
the music is still music there is another element: the music mediates a
relationship between the player and the listener. This relationship is
fragile and easily spoilt. To try to pin it down desrupts it, much like
writing down one's thoughts during a meditation significantly disrupts
the very process of meditation. For some players, this presents no
difficulties, as with cameras, but it does for me. After all the years
and miles I've covered with music, I've fully realized the significance
of of the relationship between player and listener; what in music could
be more primary, more valuable? To experience a piece of music once and
only once is to experience that relationship in its most crystalline
form. It cannot be repeated: how many times can one lose one's virginity?
"This will prove a brave kingdom to me,
Where I shall have my music for nothing."
- Shakespeare, _The Tempest_
Originally appeared in _Musician_ magazine, circa 1979. Reprinted without
permission.
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henry_burdett_messenger@cup.portal.com
e PRS in 1914, the Composerkaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (05/05/91)
In article <9105041701.1.23668@cup.portal.com> Henry_Burdett_Messenger@cup.portal.COM writes: [Long article by Robert Fripp deleted] >Originally appeared in _Musician_ magazine, circa 1979. Reprinted without >permission. This has to be the funniest thing that I have seen on the net in a long time. Robert Fripp writes an article about how terrible bootlegging is, and Henry types it in without permisssion. Fripp doesn't talk about it, but I wonder what his feelings are about copyright infrinments. Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
aruss@oucsace.cs.ohiou.EDU (Andrew Russ) (05/07/91)
Funny thing is, the "Bootlegging, Royalties, and the Moment" article by Robert Fripp was also reproduced on the back cover of a bootleg lp called Indisciple Mining Rocks. andre russ
Henry_Burdett_Messenger@cup.portal.COM (05/07/91)
Micheal Kaufman says he finds it funny (I think he means "ironic") that I would
reprint an "anti-bootlegging" article without permission.
Don't like what Mr. Fripp has to say, eh? :-)
It isn't really ironic. Fripp says he's against professional bootleggers in
general, and amateurs at his shows. We're not selling access to love-hounds,
so "professional" really doesn't hold. Fripp objects to amateur bootleggers
because they're discourteous and ruin the immediacy of the event. Since
this article was always intended to be published for a wide audience, and there
is no immediacy in a magazine, "amateur" doesn't hold either.
Given the content of the article, I'd guess he would want it to have as
wide a distribution as possible, and it's fairly unlikely that anybody
would be able to find a 12-year-old copy of _Musician_.
I'm also not in complete agreement with everything he says. It was merely
"submitted for your approval." After all, my newspaper prints opinion pieces
by Patrick Buchanan and Cal Thomas, who's views certainly don't agree with
the editorial board.
Henry B. Messenger STEVE REICH ^ THE DESERT MUSIC
henry_burdett_messenger@ MICHEAL TILSON THOMAS ^ CONDUCTOR
cup.portal.com Steve Reich and Musicians with Chorus
and members of the brooklyn philharmonic
text ^ william carlos williamsgraham@UG.CS.DAL.CA (Michael Graham) (05/07/91)
I was told that this won't get posted tothe digest 5 times so.... While you guys are looking for records, could you keep a look out for any Sugarcubes bootlegs. I would be very greatful... I went gaga for this band over a year ago and (as Harg will attest I have become quite a completest in a very extreme sense). I spent $63 US for a cd singles box set which had 2 songs which I hadn't heard! I have amassed quite a collection, but I WANT MORE!!! :) mike the cubehead -- Michael Graham | "Well she's not really my half sister...err... graham@ug.cs.dal.ca | more like 2/5ths" mgraham@ac.dal.ca | - Diane Keaton, Love and Death