rpeck@up61.UUCP (Ray Peck) (05/22/91)
With all this FrippTalk, I thought I'd contribute: On MTV Music News this past weekend, there was an item that said: "Robert Fripp, leader of arguably the most powerful Art-rock band of the 70's, King Crimson, plans to form a new version of that band this fall." They also mentioned the new Fripp/Toyah disk. Wa hoo! I wonder if he's waiting for Bruford to finish the Yes tour? I sure hope Someone asked about League O Crafty Guitarists' new album. I guess that's been answered, but I wanted to make sure that all fans are aware of the "Get Crafty" cassette-only release. 8-( I believe it's only available from Guitar Craft directly: they were selling it at the LOCG show last year in Santa Cruz. I've seen LOCG twice, and both times were completely life-altering. It's a shame that the experience doesn't transfer to disk. The life recordings are great, but somehow the music gains much of its impact from the focus of the moment, and the instant of performance. And (to me, at least) this is lost on disk, qualitatively differently than every other concert I've seen. It's as if Fripp perfectly captured what he's talking about here: >Now we come to the humanistic and philosophical reasons why I oppose the >furtive taping of live music. I am seeking the quality of attention, of >being in the moment without expectation and without history, the moment >between the human _being_ and the human animal behavioral psychology so >terrifyingly describes. As Blake put it, "He who bends himself a joy/Does >the winged life destroy." Experiencing a piece of music repeatedly in an >active state has its own qualities and merits. On tape, music is music: >good, bad, lively, lethargic, spirited or whatever. In live performance, >the music is still music there is another element: the music mediates a >relationship between the player and the listener. This relationship is >fragile and easily spoilt. To try to pin it down desrupts it, much like >writing down one's thoughts during a meditation significantly disrupts >the very process of meditation. For some players, this presents no >difficulties, as with cameras, but it does for me. After all the years >and miles I've covered with music, I've fully realized the significance >of of the relationship between player and listener; what in music could >be more primary, more valuable? To experience a piece of music once and >only once is to experience that relationship in its most crystalline >form. It cannot be repeated: how many times can one lose one's virginity? A question: is there a Crimson/Fripp mailing list? I've never seen one on the list-of-lists. How do I start one? Is there sufficient interest? /**************************************************************** * Ray Peck "The cumulative effects of * * MIPS Design Engineer combustion will render the * * LSI Logic Corporation planet uninhabitable long * * m/s g-810 before we burn the last drop * * 1525 McCarthy Blvd of oil or the last pound of * * Milpitas, CA 95305 coal" - Mason Willrich, * * President/CEO of Pacific * * (408) 954-4638 Gas & Electric Enterprises * * rpeck@lsil.com * * rpeck@jessica.stanford.edu * * * * "Civilization is a race between education and disaster." - * * - Albert Einstein * * * * "I try not to speak more clearly than I think." - N. Bohr * ****************************************************************/
aruss@oucsace.cs.ohiou.EDU (Andrew Russ) (05/22/91)
Subject: Re: FrippTalk Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa Summary: The moment. the momentum. References: <9105212336.AA03245@up61.lsil.com> In article <9105212336.AA03245@up61.lsil.com>, rpeck@up61.UUCP (Ray Peck) writes: > With all this FrippTalk, I thought I'd contribute: > On MTV Music News this past weekend, there was an item that said: > "Robert Fripp, leader of arguably the most powerful Art-rock band > of the 70's, King Crimson, plans to form a new version of that band > this fall." They also mentioned the new Fripp/Toyah disk. > > Wa hoo! I wonder if he's waiting for Bruford to finish the Yes > tour? I sure hope Hmmm. And who else? There were about 4 almost completely different King Crimsons, yet each was truly a King Crimson. The story Fripp told that he'd put the band with Belew together and it turned out to be King Crimson is completely believable. (the same story also applies to the reformation of Pere Ubu, as told by David Thomas in 1987). > > Someone asked about League O Crafty Guitarists' new album. I guess that's > been answered, but I wanted to make sure that all fans are aware of the > "Get Crafty" cassette-only release. 8-( I believe it's only available > from Guitar Craft directly: they were selling it at the LOCG show last > year in Santa Cruz. It costed about $10, including postage, more if autographed by Fripp. It's all LoCG pieces (ie no Frippertronics), over half of which are not written by Fripp, and the Fripp pieces are, on the average, no better or worse than, or particularly distinguishable from, the others. There's a somewhat mechanical, Bach-like mechanical, feel to them. But then recall the League is about Craft, not Art. The tape shows that the Crafties are definitely becoming an entity rather than an extention of Fripp. And this is precisely the idea of the League. > > I've seen LOCG twice, and both times were completely > life-altering. It's a shame that the experience doesn't transfer to > disk. The life recordings are great, but somehow the music gains much > of its impact from the focus of the moment, and the instant of performance. > And (to me, at least) this is lost on disk, qualitatively differently > than every other concert I've seen. There are other great live moments. How well or how much can get "captured" on tape (audio or video) varies. My first impression watching Live at the Hammersmith [note obligatory KaTe content] was how much better it must have been to actually see the concert (even for just those 52 minutes). > > It's as if Fripp perfectly captured what he's talking about here: > > >Now we come to the humanistic and philosophical reasons why I oppose the > >furtive taping of live music. I am seeking the quality of attention, of > >being in the moment without expectation and without history, the moment > >form. It cannot be repeated: how many times can one lose one's virginity? > At the first LoCG concert i saw (DC, 1987), On the way out we walked past the soundman, who had been recording the thing. So apparently Fripp documents his own performances. By the way, i first read this article on the back of the bootleg King Crimson album Indisciple Mining Rocks (1981 tour). > > > /**************************************************************** > * Ray Peck "The cumulative effects of * > ****************************************************************/ andrew russ
relph@presto.ig.COM (John M. Relph) (05/23/91)
In the referenced article, aruss@oucsace.cs.ohiou.EDU (Andrew Russ) writes: >> but I wanted to make sure that all fans are aware of the >> "Get Crafty" cassette-only release. > > It costed about $10, including postage, more if autographed by >Fripp. It's all LoCG pieces (ie no Frippertronics), over half of which are >not written by Fripp Yes, and Mr. Fripp does not perform on this tape either. It's entirely a League recording. There are some good moments on this tape, but it's true -- it doesn't measure up to the live performances. -- John -- Ultimate: it's not just a game, it's a way of life.
larry@csccat.cs.COM (Larry Spence) (05/23/91)
In article <9105212336.AA03245@up61.lsil.com> rpeck@up61.UUCP (Ray Peck) writes: >With all this FrippTalk, I thought I'd contribute: >On MTV Music News this past weekend, there was an item that said: >"Robert Fripp, leader of arguably the most powerful Art-rock band >of the 70's, King Crimson, plans to form a new version of that band >this fall." WHAT?!? WHAT?!? [keels over on kbd for a minute] It figures, though, it was just a matter of time. BTW, there's a new book out on Fripp by Eric Tamm, the guy who wrote the Eno book, where he dredges up the Fripp story about how during the 1981 pre-Crimso period he could feel the "presence" of Crimso "hovering just over [his] left shoulder" as he was driving in his car. Doncha just love these geniuses like Fripp and Zappa who toss out such utterly wacko statments and appear to _believe_ them? %) >Wa hoo! I wonder if he's waiting for Bruford to finish the Yes >tour? I sure hope Very very unlikely (they hate each others' guts), but I would have said that in 1980, so who knows? Another good one from the Tamm book has Fripp saying that he in effect astrally projected himself into his drummer's body during performance... I can see how Bill would feel a bit annoyed. %) And I question whether Fripp will play with musicians who haven't been through his Guitar Craft seminars, as he has very rigid ideas about tunings, pick deployment, physical posture, etc., not to mention attitude. Also, will he always include his wife in future groups, even if her vocals aren't, IMHO, up to the level of his playing? >I've seen LOCG twice, and both times were completely >life-altering. It's a shame that the experience doesn't transfer to >disk. Not as good as Belew-era Crimso, IMHO, but very, very good. Friends who saw the LOCG show here a while back complained about the "Nazi guitar army" approach (coming in single-file, standing up and sitting down in perfect unison, no physical spontaneity whatsoever, etc.). I'll be glad to see ol' Bob actually rock back and forth a little in his chair, like in '81-82. In '82, he almost fell off his chair at a particularly hot show in Ohio. %) >The life recordings are great, but somehow the music gains much >of its impact from the focus of the moment, and the instant of performance. >And (to me, at least) this is lost on disk, qualitatively differently >than every other concert I've seen. This is true, but unfortunately it comes across as some sort of est-inductee foaming to folks who haven't seen it. >>[Fripp:] Now we come to the humanistic and philosophical reasons why I >>oppose the furtive taping of live music. Awww, fuck that! Live tapes may not capture it all, but they're better than nothing. %) >>being in the moment without expectation and without history, the moment >>between the human _being_ and the human animal behavioral psychology so >>terrifyingly describes. As Blake put it, "He who bends himself a joy... >>[blahblahblahblah...] Yeah, well, to paraphrase Bob, I guess you had to be there. If he thinks that live tapes poorly convey the experience, I say that his written word is a poor second, too. Shut up 'n' play yer guitar, Bob. %) >It cannot be repeated: how many times can one lose one's virginity? But it's so much _fun_ to at least _try_... %) >A question: is there a Crimson/Fripp mailing list? I've never seen >one on the list-of-lists. How do I start one? Is there sufficient >interest? Just MHO, but I don't like mailing lists. Why not just post to rec.music.misc, or gaffa, as long as the gaffa-gods don't mind? %) -- Larry Spence larry@csccat.cs.com ..{uunet,texsun,cs.utexas.edu,decwrl}!csccat!larry
rpeck@up61.UUCP (Ray Peck) (05/24/91)
----- Begin Included Message ----- >From: larry@csccat.cs.com (Larry Spence) >Very very unlikely (they hate each others' guts), but I would have said that >in 1980, so who knows? Another good one from the Tamm book has Fripp saying >that he in effect astrally projected himself into his drummer's body during >performance... I can see how Bill would feel a bit annoyed. %) > This is the first I'd heard of Bruford and Fripp not getting along. . . In Belew-era interviews with Bruford, he seemed to really like Fripp, even though he was annoyed about the on-again, off-again nature of the band. I know Bruford can't stand Chris Squire, but from what I know, I can understand. From what source do you get your info? From this Tamm book? >And I question whether Fripp will play with musicians who haven't been >through >his Guitar Craft seminars, as he has very rigid ideas about tunings, pick >deployment, physical posture, etc., not to mention attitude. Also, will he >always include his wife in future groups, even if her vocals aren't, IMHO, >up to the level of his playing? > Well, he's had rigid ideas about a lot of things. I don't think it would be King Crimson if there weren't other elements to play off Fripp. It would be League of {Gentlemen/Craftys} or Exposure or whatever. But it wouldn't be Red or Discipline. I always assumed that when Fripp talked about how the Discipline band became KC, as if Crimson was some ethereal seperate entity that inhabited the band, what he meant was that it was a *band*, rather than a solo project with other musicians. >>I've seen LOCG twice, and both times were completel life-altering. >Not as good as Belew-era Crimso, IMHO, but very, very good. Very, very different. To me, although Belew-era Crimson was controlled by the "Spirit of Fripp", mostly in writing, in performance it was more of a Bruford/Levin/Belew band. Which is a much looser thing entirely. And one that I, frankly, prefer. >Friends who saw >the LOCG show here a while back complained about the "Nazi guitar army" >approach (coming in single-file, standing up and sitting down in perfect >unison, no physical spontaneity whatsoever, etc.). I think that this served well to focus the moment on the sound. It would have been very different if the musicians injected more "personality" into the show, by moving around and all. > >>The live recordings are great, but somehow the music gains much >>of its impact from the focus of the moment, and the instant of performance. >>And (to me, at least) this is lost on disk, qualitatively differently >>than every other concert I've seen. > >This is true, but unfortunately it comes across as some sort of est-inductee >foaming to folks who haven't seen it. > True, but it's true. Evidence: my girlfriend *hated* Fripp before going to the show. Wouldn't listen to him. Now she's a huge fan, with a definate religious fervor when she talks to someone about that show. It is very similar to someone whose life is changed after going to a "seminar" like est or something, except that it was simply the music inducing the mind into a focused, meditative-yet-sharp state, rather than a pat on the back coming from someone. This focus is what doesn't come off on the recordings. >>>[Fripp:] Now we come to the humanistic and philosophical reasons why I >>>oppose the furtive taping of live music. > >Awww, fuck that! Live tapes may not capture it all, but they're better than >nothing. %) > Yeah, well I agree with you. I guess people still buy old 78's of Caruso. . . >>A question: is there a Crimson/Fripp mailing list? I've never seen >>one on the list-of-lists. How do I start one? Is there sufficient >>interest? > >Just MHO, but I don't like mailing lists. Why not just post to >rec.music.misc, >or gaffa, as long as the gaffa-gods don't mind? %) Because in this enlightened company, we don't have netnews. And even though gaffa is, happily, available as a Digest (Thanks!), I don't think this is the proper forum for the extended discussion of Frippery that I'd like to see (on the order of Notes from the Edge, or 1/10 of gaffa). On the other hand, maybe there should be a rec.music.gaffa.happy_rhodes. . . 8-) guess I should go buy the darn CD. When will Tower have it? ----- End Included Message ----- /**************************************************************** * Ray Peck "The cumulative effects of * * MIPS Design Engineer combustion will render the * * LSI Logic Corporation planet uninhabitable long * * m/s g-810 before we burn the last drop * * 1525 McCarthy Blvd of oil or the last pound of * * Milpitas, CA 95305 coal" - Mason Willrich, * * President/CEO of Pacific * * (408) 954-4638 Gas & Electric Enterprises * * rpeck@lsil.com * * rpeck@jessica.stanford.edu * * * * "Civilization is a race between education and disaster." - * * - Albert Einstein * * * * "I try not to speak more clearly than I think." - N. Bohr * ****************************************************************/
chryses@xurilka.UUCP (Phong Co) (05/28/91)
Ray Peck says: > "Robert Fripp, leader of arguably the most powerful Art-rock band > of the 70's, King Crimson, plans to form a new version of that band > this fall." They also mentioned the new Fripp/Toyah disk. > >Wa hoo! I wonder if he's waiting for Bruford to finish the Yes >tour? I sure hope Yes, I heard rumors of a King Crimson tour this fall. That would be awesome, except that, according to my source, Bruford will not be a part, since he is committeed to touring with Yes. Belew should be along, though, and probably Levin. > I've seen LOCG twice, and both times were completely > life-altering... I would love to catch a show... > A question: is there a Crimson/Fripp mailing list? I've never seen > one on the list-of-lists. How do I start one? Is there sufficient > interest? I'm interested. Unfortunately, I don't really have the resources. Maybe a compassionate Love-Hound will oblige? Of course, nothing stops us from discussing Fripp right here, is there? Can anyone review the Fripp solo albums? > * Ray Peck "The cumulative effects of * > * MIPS Design Engineer combustion will render the * Phong. PS: A question for CD shoppers out there. I'm interested in ordering from the Noteworthy catalog, but I'm not sure what the duty charges are for Canada. To my knowledge there should be just the 7% GST, but I don't want to take any chances. Any one from the Great White North order anything from them lately? -- ========================================================================= Phong T. Co | chryses@xurilka.UUCP | Nice girls don't explode. dada Indugu Inc. | -- Dave Sim (Cerebus #110) Montreal, CANADA |
e343mh@TAMUTS.TAMU.EDU (Michael Hand) (06/01/91)
In article <2841796d@xurilka.UUCP> chryses@xurilka.UUCP (Phong Co) writes: >Ray Peck says: >> A question: is there a Crimson/Fripp mailing list? I've never seen >> one on the list-of-lists. How do I start one? Is there sufficient >> interest? > >I'm interested. Unfortunately, I don't really have the resources. Maybe >a compassionate Love-Hound will oblige? Well, IS THERE A CRIMSON/FRIPP LIST? The closest I've been to a religious experience was Philadelphia 1982, unless it was Atlanta 1974; both were KC concerts. B-o} Michael