[rec.music.gaffa] To Jenn, Jon, and Richard, from Vickie

barger@aristotle.ils.nwu.EDU (Jorn Barger) (06/08/91)

[This is a phone-dictation, off the top off Vickie's head, after I
summarized some of the recent discussion for her.  She's been worrying that
the Happy-traffic was getting kind of overwhelming, and wanted to jump
right in with this conciliatory offer.]

Vickie here:
I understand your problem with Happy taking up so much space in gaffa.  If
I weren't familiar with an artist, I'd probably be upset, too, if they were
taking up so much space in a Kate Bush forum.  However, Happy is truly,
truly special.  In our lifetimes, she's the closest we'll ever come to
having an American "Kate Bush".

The fact that she's a Kate Bush fan herself makes it even more appropriate
that she be talked about here, by other Kate Bush fans.  I will make this
offer for you three only: email to Jorn your home addresses, and I will
send you free of charge a sampling of Happy's music, so you can at least
get a feeling for what we're talking about.

If after you've heard Happy's music, you still feel the same way, then so
be it.  Happy is very very special to me, and seeing a Happy "backlash"
hurts as much as it would to see an anti-Kate backlash.  So it's important
to me that you at least hear what she sounds like before this goes any
further.

jondr@sco.COM (Jon Drukman) (06/13/91)

First off, I want to know how my name got thrown into this kettle.  I think
I've been admirably restrained in public, so the only way Vickie can know
of my feelings is through the distribution of email.  Unless some articles
haven't made it to our site (which is quite possible given the state of
things around here lately...)

Someone has been passing notes, class, and I want the perpetrator to email
me sharpish and fess up.  Don't worry, I'm more amused than angry.

Vickie evangelized:
>I understand your problem with Happy taking up so much space in gaffa.  If
>I weren't familiar with an artist, I'd probably be upset, too, if they were
>taking up so much space in a Kate Bush forum.  However, Happy is truly,
>truly special.  In our lifetimes, she's the closest we'll ever come to
>having an American "Kate Bush".

I'm not upset, I'm not even mildly annoyed.  In the USENET community, we've
all got the same rights; the right to post whatever we want, and the right
to not read whatever bothers us.  As soon as I see the words "happy" and
"rhodes" in close proximity, my brain just goes into neutral (no kind words
from those who think that it never gets out of that blessed state, thank
you).  I question the kind of logic that makes us DESIRE an American "Kate
Bush" but if you wish to set her up as that, go for it.  Just don't expect
me to jump on your bandwagon.

>The fact that she's a Kate Bush fan herself makes it even more appropriate
>that she be talked about here, by other Kate Bush fans.  I will make this
>offer for you three only: email to Jorn your home addresses, and I will
>send you free of charge a sampling of Happy's music, so you can at least
>get a feeling for what we're talking about.

I don't see how the fact that she's a Kate Bush fan makes her any more or
less appropriate to the discussion, actually.  In the latest issue of the
XTC fan rag, Dave Gregory talks about how he'd really love to go on tour
with Kate Bush as her guitar player, and isn't it a pity that she doesn't
tour any more.  Does that make XTC more appropriate for discussion?  I
don't think so.  In the old days, mod.music.gaffa (as it used to be known)
was a stomping ground for all kinds of music fans, with Kate merely
occupying a major slice of the postings.  Now everybody and their brother
has mailing list capabilities, so the factions have splintered off.  We've
seen The Sugarcubes, Jane Siberry and Sinead O'Connor come and go onto
their own lists.  I personally think the volume of Happy postings lately
warrants the creation of a Happy mailing list, but if the Great Unwashed
persists in perpetuating these postings, I'll exercise my inalienable right
to wield the blessed KILL file and the holy `n' key.

>If after you've heard Happy's music, you still feel the same way, then so
>be it.  Happy is very very special to me, and seeing a Happy "backlash"
>hurts as much as it would to see an anti-Kate backlash.  So it's important
>to me that you at least hear what she sounds like before this goes any
>further.

Fine, fine.  Mail away, I promise to listen with an open mind.  Don't
forget to provide ordering info when you send it, so I can review it for X
MAG issue 7.

-- 
Jon Drukman (edited for television)          uunet!sco!jondr      jondr@sco.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always note the sequencer - this will never let us down.

nrc@cbema.att.COM (Neal R Caldwell, Ii) (06/13/91)

In article <9106071715.AA14997@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu>, barger@aristotle.ils.nwu.EDU (Jorn Barger) writes:
> 
> Vickie here:
> I understand your problem with Happy taking up so much space in gaffa.  If
> I weren't familiar with an artist, I'd probably be upset, too, if they were
> taking up so much space in a Kate Bush forum.  However, Happy is truly,
> truly special.  In our lifetimes, she's the closest we'll ever come to
> having an American "Kate Bush".

This is a quite a statement considering that we are equipped with neither
clairvoyance nor omniscience.  I would suggest that an adverb is in order
here.  

> The fact that she's a Kate Bush fan herself makes it even more appropriate
> that she be talked about here, by other Kate Bush fans.  I will make this
> offer for you three only: email to Jorn your home addresses, and I will
> send you free of charge a sampling of Happy's music, so you can at least
> get a feeling for what we're talking about.
 
This is a kind offer but, unfortunately, it misses the point.  First 
of all, none of my complaints really has anything to do with whether I 
like the artist in question.  I would feel the same way if posts about 
one of my favorite artists were disrupting the group.  Second, it's now 
obvious that those of us who spoke up first were by no means the only 
ones who felt this way so making special offers to those who spoke first 
seems hardly fair.

I appreciate the offer but you would do better for Happy and everyone
here in Columbus to send a copy of the CD to Kelly Gates at:

WWCD (101.1 FM)
1721 S. High St.
Columbus, OH 43207

> If after you've heard Happy's music, you still feel the same way, then so
> be it.  Happy is very very special to me, and seeing a Happy "backlash"
> hurts as much as it would to see an anti-Kate backlash.  So it's important
> to me that you at least hear what she sounds like before this goes any
> further.

You misunderstand.  This "backlash" is in no way directed at Happy.
This is simply a group of people expressing their views about what is
and is not appropriate material for this group.  Yes, some discussion
of other artists is welcome here.  But this is not rec.music.misc and
as long as it isn't there will always be things that are and are not
appropriate to this group.  As long as that line exists _everyone_ has
a right to express there opinion on where that line lies in terms of
both subject matter and volume.

I still think the key to this whole issue is _discussion_.  I never
had any objection to the discussion of Happy's music on this group
when it wasn't being disruptive.   Unfortunately, discussion was for
the most part replaced by a flood of "I got Happy," "Send Happy to 
this station," "This station now has Happy," "Happy lyrics," "Happy
interviews" and four month old Happy reposts.  Folks, none of that
qualifies as discussion and the connection to Kate at that point
becomes incredibly tenuous.

I'll repeat this once more since many of you choose to ignore it and
pretend that I'm trying to "run Happy out of the newsgroup".  I don't
mind a _reasonable_ amount of Happy _discussion_.  Discussion is
appropriate.  Endless streams of data of interest only to those who are
already Happy Rhodes fans or are bent on become one belong in a mailing
list.


"Don't drive too slowly."                 Richard Caldwell
                                          AT&T Network Systems
                                          att!cbnews!nrc
                                          nrc@cbnews.att.com

stevev@greylady.uoregon.EDU (Steve VanDevender) (06/13/91)

I hope that I wasn't responsible for getting Jon Drukman's name
thrown into a debate he hasn't been involved in when I borrowed
one of his quote lines, namely "Nobody knows why Foo
<foo@bar.com> wrote:", and then put right underneath "Thank you,
Jon Drukman".  I was acknowledging that I had borrowed that line
from Jon, but it appears to have been misconstrued as part of
quotes from one of Vishal Markandy's messages that I was trying
not to flame but which I toasted lightly anyway.

Not that either you or I care much, but sorry, Jon.

Steve VanDevender 	stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu
"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population.
Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the
classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."