rlm@ms_aspen.hac.COM (R. L. McMillin) (06/28/91)
> BTW, <oh no, he's going to say it!> all this talk of squid reminds <oh, > i can't look -- tell me when it's over> me: i *liked* Madonna's > "Truth or Dare" movie. <that's done it; we'll have to change our name > now...> i was suprised, even astounded, by the quality of her live > performances (first time i've ever heard her really sing... something she > seems to avoid on her albums), and i enjoyed her post-main-stream > psycho-executive attitude off-stage. for all the sex, there was > refreshingly little sexism (but then, i thought "Thelma and Louise" went > easy on the guys...) "Truth Or Dare"? Yikes! It's been a long time since I was locked in a room with someone as boring, selfish, and cunningly shallow as Madonna -- for two and a half hours. Yes, she's an expert at generating profitable images, and yes, she knows her history (at least of the visual arts... nice tribute to Kubrick in one of her dance sequences). Madonna's motivation stops at her wallet. (Notice how quickly she became a proponent of free speech when the Pope threatened to shut down her shows in Rome?) If anything, I felt sickened after watching this. That's this reporter's opinion, anyway... ... and now, back to Kate Bush, who was already in progress...
dwelch@devnull.mpd.tandem.COM (Dan Welch) (06/28/91)
In article <9106271859.AA03335@c5_aspen.aspen>: >"Truth Or Dare"? Yikes! It's been a long time since I was locked in a >room with someone as boring, selfish, and cunningly shallow as Madonna -- >for two and a half hours. Yes, she's an expert at generating profitable >images, and yes, she knows her history (at least of the visual arts... >nice tribute to Kubrick in one of her dance sequences) I think you're missing the point here. Madonna is, IMHO, a fascinating performer, because she is one of the few (perhaps the only one) who has openly and unashamedly cast aside the "ars gratia artis" theme which in today's world has become pretty much a thing of the past. She is not pretending to be a great artist, like so many do. Madonna has made an art form out of advertising; it's a new thing, and something that is much more real than a lot of the crap being touted as "true art". > Maddonna's motivation stops at her wallet. If that was the case, then why does she work so hard at her shows? Didn't you see the scene where she almost castrated the sound man because her microphone stopped working? Or how she expended energy to keep the personalities of her crew evenly balanced? None of these things really made her money. MOST of the people who went to her shows couldn't probably care less about sound quality, or dramatic sets, etc. She could get up and do virtually nothing for 90 minutes, and have people pay $20 to see it. (Get out the flamethrowers, ya'll) Actually, her shows were very impressive. I was expecting straight song-and-kinda-dance. Instead, there were elaborate sets, friendly bantering, and impressive linkage (the scene before "Oh, Father" was particularly effective). It reminded me of ... no, I won't say it, the faithful will rise up and kill me. Let's just say that if Madonna had been in Hammersmith Odeon about, oh, 12 years ago, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. >(Notice how quickly she became a proponent of >free speech when the Pope threatened to shut down her shows in Rome?) I think this is really unfair. Tell me, do you go around every day, stopping people on the street, telling them that free speech is a good thing? Why should she champion the cause until it is threatened? All this makes me sound like a Madonna fan, which I'm not. But I respect her a lot, because I am never quite able to pin her down, as a person or an artist, and that, to me, is the mark of someone who is very talented at what he/she is doing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Daniel Welch | "Kate Bush is the sort of performer | | Tandem Computers, Inc. | for whom the word 'superstar' is | | Austin, TX, USA | belittling." | | dwelch@devnull.mpd.tandem.com | Mike Davies, _Melody_Maker_ | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
larry@csccat.cs.COM (Larry Spence) (06/29/91)
In article <9106281645.AA09408@tzone.mpd.tandem.com> dwelch@devnull.mpd.tandem.COM (Dan Welch) writes: >I think you're missing the point here. Madonna is, IMHO, a fascinating >performer, because she is one of the few (perhaps the only one) who has >openly and unashamedly cast aside the "ars gratia artis" theme which in >today's world has become pretty much a thing of the past. She is not >pretending to be a great artist, like so many do. Madonna has made an >art form out of advertising; it's a new thing, and something that is >much more real than a lot of the crap being touted as "true art". You've swallowed the hook, line, and sinker. It's a pose, no better and maybe no worse than the "we're so sincere and anti-commercial" pose of some artists. But certainly not worth the amount of attention that the media gives her, IMHO. As far as your statement about "one of the few (perhaps the only one)," etc., have you ever heard of Warhol, Lichtenstein, any of those people? This is _nothing_ new... Warhol even had others execute some of his canvases, just as Madonna has others sing some of her vocals. Please, I'm _not_ saying that Ms. Ciccione is as good at her art as Andy was at his! >MOST of the people who went to her shows couldn't probably >care less about sound quality, or dramatic sets, etc. She could get up >and do virtually nothing for 90 minutes, and have people pay $20 to see >it. I have to disagree. Put her up there with nothing more than a microphone and a two hour backing tape, and see how the crowd reacts. Kate could do it, Madonna couldn't. Just MHO. >All this makes me sound like a Madonna fan, which I'm not. But I respect >her a lot, because I am never quite able to pin her down, as a person >or an artist, and that, to me, is the mark of someone who is very >talented at what he/she is doing. Yeah, well, no one's ever really figured out Charlie Manson, does that make him worthy of respect? %) Madonna uses, as one starting point, the illusion that fans have of "understanding" or "pinning down" artists. Unless you know an artist personally for a long time as a friend, it's a delusion to even begin to think that you have them figured out or "pinned down." It's just that Madonna's various facets, real and manufactured, are trotted out and displayed at 100X life-size for all the world to see and post news about. %) I don't think that she as a person and artist necessarily has any more or less depth or complexity than anyone else. I hate to recommend reading Rolling Stone to anyone, but check out the issue with Madonna on the cover. Carrie Fisher interviewed her, and ripped right through a lot of Madonna's glib patter. But of course, that played right into the current Truth or Dare scenario of Madonna as vulnerable and all-revealing... She knows how to work the media, I'll grant her that. -- Larry Spence larry@csccat.cs.com ..{uunet,texsun,cs.utexas.edu,decwrl}!csccat!larry