gda@unc.UUCP (Greg Abram) (09/05/84)
>>> Nah, the expressed goal of the Russian government is only to take over the >>> world. >>> (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) >> >>Can someone cite me a reference to such an expression of this goal, >>made by the Soviet government within the last thirty years? >> > >I can; I can give you a whole bunch of them! The earliest is 1956, the >invasion of Hungary to prevent it's people from escaping control by >the Russian Soviets. > Alan Algustyniak (ihnp4!sdcrdcf!alan) > (allegra!sdcrdcf!alan) (cbosgd!sdcrdcf!alan) Jeez, is that anything like invading Grenada to keep it in OUR camp? Or maybe the Dominican Republic? Arming Contras to get Nicaraugua back? Sending military aid to this or that right wing dictator to keep their people under their thumb? Assasinating leaders (Allende? Sukharno?) we don't like? Boy, if those Ruskies do things as bad as that I sure don't like them! We were told that Grenada was being taken over by Commies; I'm sure Russian (or Cuban) citizens were told that Grenada was being liberated from American imperialistic domination. So who's right? WE are, because we are taught certain principles. THEY are, because they were taught others. We do things and forgive ourselves because they were done for a 'good cause' and decry equivalent things that the Russians do because they are the focus of all evil. They do the same. I'm sure the Russian people didn't want to blow up KAL007, but then I didn't want to bomb Cambodia. I'd sure hate to compare body counts. So their leaders say aggressive things; how about "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice"? Hey, its OK, you can do anything, no matter how extreme, if you can label it "in defense of liberty". Hell, that baby is better off dead than alive under a Commie rule. Kind of extreme, but thats no vice. So go for it! In short, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I personally am well trained to prefer our view of the world to the Russians, and I wouldn't want to live elsewhere. But before we get high and mighty in the defense of truth, justice and the American way, we should take a hard look at some of the things WE do. I think a lot of things stink.
hawk@oliven.UUCP (Rick) (09/07/84)
>>I can; I can give you a whole bunch of them! The earliest is 1956, the >>invasion of Hungary to prevent it's people from escaping control by >>the Russian Soviets. > >> Alan Algustyniak (ihnp4!sdcrdcf!alan) >> (allegra!sdcrdcf!alan) (cbosgd!sdcrdcf!alan) > >Jeez, is that anything like invading Grenada to keep it in OUR camp? Grenada wasn't quite in our camp at the time. The government that was bumped off was a marxist government--they were executed by other marxists who thought the first group was too lax. If memory serves, the United States had just turned down a grenadan attempt at better relations at the time. Anyway, they weren't quite what I'd call "in our camp." -- rick (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) [hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix]!oliveb!oliven!hawk
ljdickey@watmath.UUCP (Lee Dickey) (09/17/84)
>>Jeez, is that anything like invading Grenada to keep it in OUR camp? >Grenada wasn't quite in our camp at the time. The government that was bumped >off was a marxist government--they were executed by other marxists who thought >the first group was too lax. If memory serves, the United States had just >turned down a grenadan attempt at better relations at the time. Anyway, they >weren't quite what I'd call "in our camp." That is not quite the way I heard it. The story I heard goes more like this: A certain set of doctors in the U.S. whose second rate sons could not get into medical schools decided to finance their own off shore medical school and found that Grenada was a cheap place to do it. It was they who were alarmed by the political directions in Grenada, and asked their representatives to intervene.
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (09/18/84)
Interesting sidelight on the Grenada incident. Apparently there
was a Democrat fact-finding mission to Grenada after the mess died
down; they were, of course, interested in finding out whether Reagan
had done something stupid that they could make political capital from.
I'm told that their findings essentially confirmed the administration's
official account of the pre-invasion situation. Not what one would
expect from political opponents looking for a coverup, unless Reagan
really was right. The absence of press coverage for this "Ronnie was
right after all" finding is, uh, interesting. Nothing like unbiased
reporting on world affairs...
--
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry