allan@dbaccess.com (C. Allan Rofer) (06/05/91)
Summary of responses: - There were two requests for any information that I may find out; evidently some (few) others are concerned. - There was one negative response from someone who has "been around this issue for years". He claims that "nobody owns ISODE so nobody can give you the right to do anything." I could not get through to him via email, but I would be interested in finding out how his "legal folks" can justify their risk-taking. Conclusions: 1. The origination of ISODE code is clouded. 2. There have been no tracking systems put into place to ensure that the originator's rights to the code have been passed to the ISODE group. 3. Commercial use of ISODE by any company is subject to risk of future claims of origination and intellectual property rights by the originators. Recommendation: I recommend to the new consortium that distributes this code that they resolve the ownership and origination problems if a goal of the ISODE code is to be used in commercial products. Original posting: Subject: Ownership of ISODE code Status: R We are building an application using ISODE code and we have come upon a problem. There appears to be no way we can track the originality of the source code; therefore, we cannot testify as to the owner of the code nor to the rights of the distributor of the code to license it to anyone. This could lead to some very nasty situations where the original owner comes around to "claim his/her rightful possessions". As we are all aware, the intellectual property rights issues in software can be very cloudy. My questions for discussion: 1. Who owns the code (and therefore has the right to distribute it)? Note: Marshall Rose will not respond except to point me in the direction of the manual preface, which is, of course, useless for answering this question. 2. Is there some agreement that each contributor signs regarding the disposition of the code? If not, why do you think the ISODE group has the right to distribute the code? 3. What are other companies who distribute products with ISODE code doing about this originality issue? Are they liable for surprises? I am manifestly interested in seeing the use of ISODE code throughout the computer community; witness the fact that I am using it myself. However, I think that these origin issues need to be resolved before companies who worry about these issues can participate. Thanks. Note: I have sent a question about this to bug-isode@nisc.psi.net and received no response. If you send reply by email, I will summarize. Response: From: cwm@palo-alto.ca.us (Chris Moore) Message-Id: <9105211644.AA00805@sooner.palo-alto.ca.us> To: allan@wookie.dbaccess.com Subject: Re: Ownership of ISODE code Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.dev-environ In-Reply-To: <9105172345.AA14811@wookie.dbaccess.com> Organization: - Cc: Status: R In article <9105172345.AA14811@wookie.dbaccess.com> you write: >This could lead to some very nasty situations where the original owner >comes around to "claim his/her rightful possessions". As we are all >aware, the intellectual property rights issues in software can be very >cloudy. You are not going to find any tangible evidince to support a claim to originality on ISODE. I've been around this issue for years - on both sides of the fence. Nobody "owns" ISODE so nobody can give you the right to do anything. You might argue that Marshall is ISODE but he won't get anywhere close to signing anything. In the past, after having similar frustrations folks have sat down with the legal folks and explained the situation. Once everyone understands the situation it is just a matter of working the text of a license statement, etc. - Chris -- C. Allan Rofer INTERNET: allan@dbaccess.com c/o DB Access Inc. UUCP: {uunet,mips}!troi!allan 2900 Gordon Avenue, Suite 101 FAX: (408) 735-0328 Santa Clara, CA 95051 TEL: (408) 735-7545
Stef@ICS.UCI.EDU (Einar Stefferud) (06/24/91)
As the designated ISODE Steering Group contact person for ISODE Consortium Founding Activities, I must say that the "ownership" issue will most certainly be placed on the issue list for the consortium to deal with, after the Consortium is founded. This is true with. or without any additional pressure from any one, since it is a natural consequence of the Consortium assuming any fiduciary responsibililty for the source code. In the meantime, the code is held by the original contributors, and the statement on rights to use ISODE and the constraint that any user of ISODE agrees to hold the contributors harmless is clear enough to serve the ISODE community needs until some action may be taken by the ISODE Consortium. Until the ISODE Consortium is formed, the ISODE community will just have to make-do with what is now in the documentation. Many people and companies have examined it closely and have decided that it is OK to use the source code under the terms stated in the documentation. There is no mechanism available to do anything more at this time. Comments are welcome, but please understand that without a funded and operational ISODE Consortium, no other action can be taken on this matter. On the topic of founding the ISODE Consortium, work is progressing with an initial set of interested parties who are in the process of pledging to found an open international paid membership consortium to look after the needs and wants of the ISODE Community. No specific policies have been set at this point, beyond a firm commitment to keep ISODE in its current "openly available" distribution mode and accept new contributions of code, with support to be given to filling in gaps and improving conformance, and to generally making ISODE into a proper reference implementation for those who want such a thing. Beyond this, it is premature to announce anything that might pre-empt the Consortium making its own decisions when it becomes operational. If you have ideas about what you want the ISODE Consortium to do for you, or for the ISODE community, or for the industry, please send them along to me <stef@ics.uci.edu>. I will collect them and organize them for contribution to the ISODE formation process. Of course, I will also be interested in hearing what you will do to support the consortium in doing what you want it to do for you. If you want to participate in the formation process, please let me know, and I will add you to the list of founding participants. Best Regards...\Stef