williamt@athena1.Sun.COM (William A. Turnbow) (06/09/89)
Is feminism really politically or socially correct? I see feminists fighting for rights of women, and walking over anyone necessary to get them. Even it involves walking over the rights of men and going past the point of fairness or equality. The very name 'feminism' implies something that is for females only. In it's very name is the concept of inequality. I would feel much more comfortable and supportive if these women were fighting for equal human rights for 100% of the population, not just 50%. I have a hard time being supportive when I go to a woman's rights oriented event, and then getting dumped on because I am male. One of the perfect examples I was thinking of in recent times was the insurance rates. Women were fighting for equality in health insurance rates and life-term payouts (even though statistically it did cost more for women than men). They did NOT however, fight for equality in driver's insurance rates where they have a distinct advantage. This really went over like a lead balloon with me. If women want equality that is one thing, and it is fine. But if women want 'rights', that men don't have. That's another thing, and I think that's wrong. -wat-
Will.Johnson@itsgw.rpi.EDU (06/11/89)
"William A. Turnbow" <williamt@Sun.COM> says: > One of the perfect examples I was thinking of in recent times >was the insurance rates. Women were fighting for equality in health >insurance rates and life-term payouts (even though statistically it >did cost more for women than men). They did NOT however, fight for >equality in driver's insurance rates where they have a distinct >advantage. This really went over like a lead balloon with me. > > If women want equality that is one thing, and it is fine. But >if women want 'rights', that men don't have. That's another thing, >and I think that's wrong. > >-wat- You are confusing fighting for and not fighting against. Women are not fighting against (for the most part) equality in the driver's insurance, they simply aren't fighting for it. I don't think any but the most militant of feminists would condemn men for wanting equal insurance rates, particularly in the light of the above, but as I've said in my own defense before: why do you expect them to be more concerned with your problems than with their own? There is a limited capacity for working for change, and for obvious reasons feminists want to use the energy they have for their own benefit. My complaint comes whenever a feminist group lobbies AGAINST a group of men trying to fix inequalities against them. It seems that many feminists feel as you do only in reverse: Since the problems of women are far and away worse than anyone else's (or at least men's), men taking time to work for their own equality in some areas are being sexist and trying to re- assert male superiority. They (and you) don't seem to recognize the difference between working for your own ends and fighting against someone elses. Will. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- William Johnson, 76 1/2 - 13th Street, Troy, NY 12180 WILLIAM_JOHNSON%mts.rpi.edu@ITSGW.rpi.edu adric@pawl.rpi.edu Disclaimer: I don't disclaim ANYTHING, dammit!!! "Hey, Dad...wanna have a catch?" -- Ray Kinsella
williamt@athena1.Sun.COM (William A. Turnbow) (06/13/89)
In article <17421@paris.ics.uci.edu> WILLIAM_JOHNSON%mts.rpi.edu@ITSGW.rpi.edu writes: >There is a limited >capacity for working for change, and for obvious reasons feminists >want to use the energy they have for their own benefit. > >Will. ----------------- Will: Perhaps they should take a page from the republican party. The republican party, realizing they didn't have sufficient political force to back up the execution of their agenda went off and got groups (not even related, but at least not opposed) to buy into the group, so that they would have sufficient political energies to accomplish their goals. If women would realize, to use insurance as an example, that if they only fight for themselves, men are going to perceive this as a theat. At one local company, when women complained because of a lack of equality in certain facilities -- did it help the women? No, they shut down some of the men's facilities. In a similar way there is a problem in the insurance industry. If women want rate reductions, the money has to come from somewhere, and men will perceive it as coming from their own pockets. Women will therefore encounter resistance to their energies, wasting them. If instead, they got men to buy in because there is a benefit to men as well, they get combined energies of the other group (men), and get alot farther along in their goals of equality. One person alone can go a mile. Two people together can go twice as far (or farther if synergy is present). Two people against each other will go nowhere. William