cel@cs.duke.EDU (Chris Lane) (10/18/90)
How did women, all fired up for liberation by CR groups, effect change in their personal relationships? I have a friend who really needs her husband to change his awareness, to realize his fair share of responsibility for their family. They've been arguing a lot recently, and he's getting more and more unreasonable. She doesn't want to leave him, and can't realistically do so, without suffereing a severe drop in quality of life, I'm not talking about loosing the BMW, she already makes most the clothes her family wears. Also, of course, she still loves this man. I simply don't know of any plausible way I can help. Her husband is an adult human, and there's no way to count on him changing, but by Godd(ess), he needs to change. What are ways to impel people to decide to change? Chris -- "Life's a bitch and then you die." cel@cs.duke.edu Down with Gender! Enjoy today.
ellene@microsoft.UUCP (Ellen EADES) (10/20/90)
In article <656193285@romeo.cs.duke.edu> cel@cs.duke.EDU (Chris Lane) writes: >I have a friend who really needs her husband to change his awareness, [...] >no way to count on him changing, but by Godd(ess), he needs to change. >What are ways to impel people to decide to change? I realized, less than a year ago, how impossible it is to impel someone to change unless it wants to change. You make two contradictory statements above. In your first sentence, your friend needs her husband to change. In your later sentence, your friend's husband needs to change. What makes you think that these statements are both true? What makes you think either of them is true? I think part of feminism is the ability to look at yourself, set goals, make hard decisions, and live your life as you want to. If your friend's first priority is remaining with her husband, she needs to accept that he is unlikely to change. If your friend's first priority is a change, she needs to accept that her husband may not be a person who can live through a change with her. Sometimes life does present us with dichotomies and choices, and I think feminism is ideally suited for helping decide which choice you will follow. Ellen Eades
marla@Eng.Sun.COM (Marla Parker) (10/23/90)
In article <58384@microsoft.UUCP> ellene@microsoft.UUCP (Ellen EADES) writes: >... >I think part of feminism is the ability to look at yourself, set >goals, make hard decisions, and live your life as you want to. If >your friend's first priority is remaining with her husband, she needs >to accept that he is unlikely to change. I'd call this wisdom, not feminism. :-) Changing oneself is hard enough; changing someone else nearly impossible and in some ways morally wrong in my opinion. I'll try to set an example and stand by my beliefs, but I wont try to coerce my spouse to change. (What about children, though?) My husband and I were each raised in extremely sexist families. That cannot be wiped out by just saying, "Ok, now we're going to be equal and have an equitable marriage." He says, with some humor, that a few years after we married I became "way feminist", and if pressed he might admit to being somewhat feminist himself. For both of us though, what we believe in theory and what we practice in fact are not always the same. Sometimes it seems like what *I* believe in theory and what *he* practices in fact are not even close! But close enough, fortunately. Given that I have changed since we first got together, if he had NOT changed at all, and/or he had become more sexist and more like our fathers instead of less, then I would be faced with some difficult decisions. -- Marla Parker (415) 336-2538 marla@eng.sun.com
cr2r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Christian M. Restifo) (10/26/90)
Ellen Eades writes:
"I think part of feminism is the ability to look at yourself, set
goals, make hard decisions, and live your life as you want to."
Isn't that also just being an individual?
-Chris Restifo
cr2r@andrew.cmu.edujudy@altair.la.locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) (10/26/90)
In article <656193285@romeo.cs.duke.edu> cel@cs.duke.EDU (Chris Lane) writes: >I have a friend who really needs her husband to change his awareness, >to realize his fair share of responsibility for their family. They've >been arguing a lot recently, and he's getting more and more >unreasonable. She doesn't want to leave him, and can't realistically >do so, without suffereing a severe drop in quality of life, I'm not >talking about loosing the BMW, she already makes most the clothes her >family wears. >Also, of course, she still loves this man. I simply don't know of any >plausible way I can help. Her husband is an adult human, and there's >no way to count on him changing, but by Godd(ess), he needs to change. >What are ways to impel people to decide to change? I have a close friend who is married to a Brazilian man. I asked her once if all Brazilian's were as chauvanistic as he and was told that from Brazilian standards, he was liberated. (His mother told her she should have breast reduction surgery since men don't like big breasts - that's how bad it is.) She has made ENORMOUS progress. I'd have left by now. Basically, she quit fighting. She does what she would do were she living alone. If she feels something is his job and he won't do it, it goes undone. For example, he doesn't think he should have to pick up his own clothes. He leaves them all over the house expecting his wife to pick up after him. She refuses. She takes all the clothes that are strewn throughout the house and just throws them on his closet floor - clean and dirty alike. He is always cussing about not being able to find things and she just quietly says, "Well, if you want to start putting your clothes away you won't have this problem." A lot of times women (and men - my husband finally banned me from doing laundry because I didn't do it up to his standards) have expectations of how things should be done and what should be done and then complain because the men (or women) don't do them THAT WAY. So, if your friend's husband doesn't do dishes and she doesn't want to do dishes that night, instead of having a fight, just don't do dishes. There are worse things than dishes in the sink. But I think it is really impossible to change another person. You make them aware by letting them experience another viewpoint. But fighting to get someone to change is futile. ("Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"). Judy