davej@yang.earlham.edu (David A. Jeroslow) (10/23/90)
A female friend of mine told me something about lesbian relationships. She is heterosexual. "Gay male relationships are more likely to be based on a genuine love and sexual attraction, whereas gay female relationships are often based on a mutual anger toward men." I am neutral to the above statement. Any comments? [If you're going to follow up, please try to keep the flames down to a dull roar. -- AMBAR]
HUXTABLE@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kathryn Huxtable) (10/23/90)
In article <3193@yang.earlham.edu>, davej@yang.earlham.edu (David A. Jeroslow) writes: > "Gay male relationships are more likely to be based on a genuine love and > sexual attraction, whereas gay female relationships are often based on a > mutual anger toward men." The statement is funny. It's a reversal of the description I usually see which goes something like "Lesbian relationships are more likely to be based on a genuine love and commitment, whereas gay male relationships are often based only on sexual attraction." Note that it isn't really inverted, though it kind of looks like it. Both of those statements contain multiple hidden value judgments, e.g. that anger towards men is bad, that sexual attraction is shallow, etc. Since I know gay male and lesbian couples who fit all manner of descriptions, I wonder what we gain by stereotyping? -- Kathryn Huxtable huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
tak@watmath.waterloo.edu (Mike Takefman) (10/25/90)
In article <3236@yang.earlham.edu> davej@yang.earlham.edu (David A. Jeroslow) writes: >A female friend of mine told me something about lesbian relationships. >She is heterosexual. > >"Gay male relationships are more likely to be based on a genuine love >and sexual attraction, whereas gay female relationships are often >based on a mutual anger toward men." I don't know if the following agrees with this (and is anecdotal) but... Some (what % I can't hazard a guess) of the lesbians my wife has met through feminist activites are "politically" lesbian. ie they made the decision to be lesbian based on disatisfaction with men and patriarchial society rather than a specific attraction to women. Most do however, love their significant others. -- Michael Takefman So you tell me, Homocidal Maniac, or Bell Northern Research just Good Clean Country Living? Computer Architecture Exploration Group Albert - Twin Peaks Email: bnrgate!bnr-rsc!tak or uunet!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!tak - Voice:613-765-4333
ann%labrys.wpd.sgi.com@SGI.COM (Ann Mei Chang) (10/26/90)
In article <3236@yang.earlham.edu> davej@yang.earlham.edu (David A. Jeroslow) writes: >A female friend of mine told me something about lesbian relationships. >She is heterosexual. > >"Gay male relationships are more likely to be based on a genuine love >and sexual attraction, whereas gay female relationships are often >based on a mutual anger toward men." As a lesbian, I am bewildered whenever I hear this common misperception that lesbians hate men, or even bond on that basis. First of all, let me state this is not at all true for any "gay female relationships" I personally have been in. In addition, this has not appeared to be true for any of the many lesbian friends I have. For me, being a lesbian means focusing my energy towards women, because I love women. Anger towards men does not enter into the picture: I just don't put much energy towards men, positive OR negative, for the most part. I don't understand why people often seem to confuse this desire to focus energy on other women as necessarily a result of anger towards men. It has nothing to do with men. Perhaps men just can't figure out why we would want to focus energy on anyone else unless we were angry at them??? If anything, my interactions with women has seemed to indicate that straight women for the most part have more anger (if any) towards men than lesbians in general. This is because men are a larger part of their lives, so there are opportunities for men to do things which anger them (i.e. a boyfriend being abusive or having an affair). Wheras, as a lesbian who doesn't interact much with men on a personal level, men just don't figure into my world, so there isn't much to be angry at them about on a personal level. OO Ann ++ ann@sgi.com
kaveh@ms.uky.edu (Kaveh Baharestan) (10/27/90)
ann%labrys.wpd.sgi.com@SGI.COM (Ann Mei Chang) writes: >In article <3236@yang.earlham.edu> davej@yang.earlham.edu (David A. >Jeroslow) writes: >Perhaps men just can't figure out why we would want to focus >energy on anyone else unless we were angry at them??? Exactly. Most men (and het women) expect men to be central to the lives of women, central to everything in fact. It is treatening to most people to see one self-sulficent self-identified women, and it is even more disturbing to see two of them together. SOOOooo, people come up with myths as to the real REASON for lesbian relationships and to the interaction in them. Noone seem to think of the REASONs behind het relations, eg "Why am i heterosexual, oh, I guess i hate the other sex and so does my partner. how clear it is to me now!" 8^) -kaveh
larryc@poe.jpl.nasa.gov (Larry E. Carroll) (10/30/90)
>For me, being a lesbian means focusing my energy towards women, >because I love women. Anger towards men does not enter into the >picture: I just don't put much energy towards men, positive OR >negative, for the most part. > >If anything, my interactions with women has seemed to indicate that >straight women for the most part have more anger (if any) towards >men than lesbians in general. This is because men are a larger part >of their lives, so there are opportunities for men to do things which >anger them (i.e. a boyfriend being abusive or having an affair). One thing about this topic annoys me, and that is that the original question (and many other topics discussed on the net) assumes that "all Lesbians" (or all feminists, or all men, or whatever) are alike and that you can know a generic Lesbian (or feminist, or man, or whatever). This is called stereotyping, folks, and my very long temper is beginning to shorten the more time I am exposed to net-talk. I've lived with two Lesbians for the last six years, & met many of their friends of all the several sexes. My friendships with straight women (and other) friends is usually very emotionally intimate, so I hear problems that they sometimes don't even share with their women friends (such as one very activist feminist bewildered by her bondage fantasies). My impression matches Ann's (above) for the most part. The times when I've stirred most anger is when I've seemed to intrude on the Lesbian world, such as when I "stole" a bisexual lover from her Lesbian lover. (The truth was that she was ready to leave, and it could just as easily been another woman that she fell for -- which she did a year later with a woman who was so right for her that they married). There are Lesbians who hate or fear men or find them alien & repulsive. It does the world no good to deny this truth. But there seem to be at least as many Lesbians who like men very much. I don't know the reasons why, but I often "feel" this affinity from the very first time I meet them, probably through body language that I'm not consciously aware of. And to expand this topic a bit, Lesbians are as diverse as any other group. I've known some (for instance) who were so conservative that they considered Reagan a flaming liberal. Can we knock off the excessive generalizations about them? Larry Carroll "Takes-us" (correct pronunciation of Texas) Dancin' Fool
eris@fluke.tc.fluke.com (Chris Beckmeyer) (10/31/90)
From a male homesexual friend: "Gay men are gay because they are. Most lesbian women are lesbian because they've suffered some sort of trauma inflicted by straight men." About 95% of his friends are lesbian women. Basis of lesbian relationships are as variable as any other group. Chris