[soc.feminism] Feminism, Inclusion, and the University

pedersen@cartan.berkeley.edu (Sharon L. Pedersen) (10/24/90)

How to tell this, expect as a story coming out of my own experience?

In the context of a discussion about how to reverse the astoundingly
high failure rate of black students in college math courses, the
architect (Uri Treisman) of a successful program to do just that, told
me that "What works for all students, works for black students."
I.e., the changes to be made are not to single out black students for
special remedial help (which in fact they don't need--the problem is
one of coping strategies that cease to work at the college level, not
of bad preparation or less ability), but to set up the course in a way
that supports everybody learning the material (in particular, making
ways to relate the mathematics to students' everyday life, and setting
up structures that require students to work together, and abandoning
the pure lecture style for a more participatory style of learning).

Now to feminism:

This has got me thinking about feminism, in particular, how we work
for equal opportunity.  Even more in particular, how to work for
equality in the academic world.  Most discussions, including the ones
I initiate, are in the form, "Women face such-and-such a problem;  how
can we change that?"  Lots of problems women face, are faced by some
men also.  Have I been isolated from my colleagues?  I know men in the
same situation who have felt equally out of place.  Is moving a
hardship, because of family constraints?  Some men also complain of
these issues.  Is the old-boy network alive and well?  (YES!!!!!!
(alas))  I know men who are not plugged-in either, and lose by it.

Statistically I think these things are all much worse for women, and
they would never have been noticed or begun to be acted on without
women noticing them, but what kinds of different ways of thinking
about these issues would we generate if we asked, "How can we make
the university a more humane place for everyone?"  Suggestions?

For example, my understanding is that the "Up or Out" tenure policies
at universities (supported by the American Associaition of University
Professors) were instituted as a result of the feminist revolution of
the late 60's.  Suddenly it was noticed that many talented women had
been kept by universities for years in low-level appointments.  So "Up
or Out" requires the University to actually promote and tenure people
it wants to keep, in particular, women.  (This is a slightly wierd
example, since I don't think any junior faculty, male or female,
thinks of this as a positive policy.  Rather, the battle for tenure is
enormously stress-making.  But it's certainly not something that is
currently perceived as being a special program for women, although
historically that's where (I've been given to understand) it came from.)

More cynically, might we not make more progress if we could sell
solutions-to-discrimination to men as benefitting them as well, rather
than setting up an "us against them" situation?  (Golly, maybe we
could gain the support of all the "When you do it to me it's feminism;
when I do it to you, it's discrimination" types.)

Less cynically, having a mind-set to solving these problems that
stresses my _inclusion_ in the world of academics, that allows me to
see _similarity_ between my experience and my colleagues', would be
easing.  I get frustrated--I don't want to be a WOMAN in mathematics,
I want to be a PERSON in mathematics.

Ambivalently, such a mind-set can be deceiving.  Feminism and Humanism
are not the same.  In fact, my experience is NOT just like that of my
male colleagues.  It's not just like that of ALL of my female
colleagues, either, but odds are that when I speak to a woman about,
for example, the stress of wondering which male colleague is going to
misinterpret my efforts to build a civil relationship in which we can
discuss mathematics, and make a pass at me instead, she will
understand, and when I talk to a man about it, he won't.  (E.g., She
will say, "Yes, it's terrible".  He will say, "Are you sure?" or
"Sexual attraction is unavoidable in a mixed-sex situation" (more on
_that_ in another article) or "Well, we all have to live with minor
job irritations" or some similar bone-head comment.)  (And it's not
just internal stress--every time I have to hesitate about how best to
approach a mathematician to set up a dialogue, that's one more hurdle
in the way of getting research done.)

I so much want to be a Humanist.  I want to believe Men and Women are
Equal, and the Same.  I want not to be confused in my logical mind by
shouts of "Reverse Discrimination."  But, it's just plain false that I
can exist by pretending I'm just like everyone (oops, I mean "all the
men", but golly, they sure are _almost_ everyone in this context) I
work with.  It's a terrible strain to be continually in a male world,
in an environment that takes male experience as normative, and where
female experience is almost nowhere to be seen.  And so I deliberately
seek out other women academics, to lend balance to my life.

--Sharon Pedersen
  pedersen@cartan.berkeley.edu   OR   ucbvax!cartan!pedersen

RA04@Lehigh.UCAR.EDU (10/31/90)

The "Up or Out" tenure policies may have coincided with a visible
emergence of feminism in the late 60's, but there's little causal
connection.  See instead the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964,
Title IX of the NDEA, establishment/strengthening of EEOC, and other
legislation and/or regulation that affected colleges and universities
that received a stated sum of federal funding.

Another influence was a result of 1960's activism (use of racism as
model for other oppressions, increasing prominence of neomarxism,
etc.): there were educated people of color, women, and white single
men (people were marrying later than in the fifties) discovering the
oppression of "a family wage" for some, and a part-time position for
others.

gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit) (11/09/90)

In article <89416@aerospace.AERO.ORG> pedersen@cartan.berkeley.edu (Sharon L. Pedersen) writes:

>Statistically I think these things are all much worse for women, and
>they would never have been noticed or begun to be acted on without
>women noticing them, but what kinds of different ways of thinking
>about these issues would we generate if we asked, "How can we make
>the university a more humane place for everyone?"  Suggestions?
........................................................................
>More cynically, might we not make more progress if we could sell
>solutions-to-discrimination to men as benefitting them as well, rather
>than setting up an "us against them" situation?  (Golly, maybe we
>could gain the support of all the "When you do it to me it's feminism;
>when I do it to you, it's discrimination" types.)

Long time ago another feminist asked this question.  I answered that
I didn't like affirmative action, but I would agree with affirmative action
by income level.  W.g. if you have several candidates with the same 
qualifications, pick the one with the *lowest* annual income.  

I still remember how the same feminists who shout "59 cents!"
rejected this very idea with zillion excuses...

(An exercise to the reader: if they earn less than a man with the 
same qualification, then why did they reject the idea?)

Anyway, the fact that before you ask your questions you start with:
"these things are all much worse for women" leaves me with a feeling
that you don't really want to replace your "solutions", just to put
them in a more attractive package.

If I'm wrong and you have something new to offer then please offer it,
if you just want to make the old programs look more attractive then *I*
am not interested.

>work with.  It's a terrible strain to be continually in a male world,
>in an environment that takes male experience as normative, and where
>female experience is almost nowhere to be seen.  And so I deliberately
>seek out other women academics, to lend balance to my life.

Sometime I will tell you something about my experiences in the US,
I will also tell you that the group in Usenet that has done most of 
the bashing against foreign students is soc.women...
 

Hillel                                                 gazit@cs.duke.edu

"The past cannot be changed, not even by Constitutional amendment." -- wharf rat