rgvdh@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robert Gilles van der Heide) (01/02/91)
>A MS. OPEN LETTER ON THE PERSIAN GULF CRISIS > [...] >We are angry at and weary of the way gender gaps in U.S. public opinion >are consistently ignored. Soon after the Gulf crisis began, CBS News Poll >showed 43 percent of women disapprove of the use of U.S. troops to force >Iraq from Kuwauit, as compared to 29 percent of men. Doesn't say what percantage is "don't care". Unless it's remarkably large for a question of this importance, a majority of women favor use of use of U.S. troops. Smaller than the majority of men but still a majority. Kind of reminds me of the last presidential election, in which Bush got a large majority of men and a smaller majority of women, after which the question was not "why do women not vote like the Republican Party?", but "why do men loath the Democratic Party even more than women do?". As a Democrat I think that's an important question. -RGvdH "No war for oil! Build more nuclear power plants!"
w25y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (01/02/91)
But if the draft is reinstated, which looks more and more likely, will
women insist on the right to be drafted too?
If not, do women really have the right to be treated equally by the
military?
-- Paul Ciszek
W25Y@CRNLVAX5 Bitnet
W25Y@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU Internet
UUNET!CORNELL!VAX5!W25Y UUCP
"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse." --Bruce Cockburnjan@orc.olivetti.COM (Jan Parcel) (01/03/91)
In article <1990Dec4.100625.1344@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> w25y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >But if the draft is reinstated, which looks more and more likely, will >women insist on the right to be drafted too? > >If not, do women really have the right to be treated equally by the >military? Do you think women should fight for the right to be drafted for the purpose of being treated unequally in the military? I think equal treatment inside an organization is a very good prerequisite for being forced to join that organization. Besides, it is unlikely that the military will want to draft very many women if it won't be allowed to use them in combat -- they would still count against the budget. I suspect that "allowing" women to prove themselves in combat is viewed as a prerequisite by the military, just as "allowing" the military to train and promote women fairly is viewed as a prerequisite by some feminists. Schroeder's bill to even allow *experimental* use of women in combat positions was defeated -- I don't think it was feminists that defeated it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ jan@orc.olivetti.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We must worship Universal Consciousness as each of the 5 genders in turn if we wish to be fully open to Yr glory. -- St. Xyphlb of Alpha III
ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (01/05/91)
[followups are set to talk.environment -- AMBAR]
Robert Gilles van der Heide in the article
<1990Dec21.151756.5064@athena.mit.edu> writes:
]"No war for oil! Build more nuclear power plants!"
I agree with Robert's statement about no war for oil, but instead of
going to a source of power that is much more dangerous, why not
research water, wind and sun power.
(the environmentalism of my roommate is sneaking out of me.)
ag
P.S. I was in Harrisburg during the Three Mile Island accident.feit@acsu.buffalo.edu (Elissa Feit) (01/05/91)
In article <1990Dec4.100625.1344@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> w25y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >But if the draft is reinstated, which looks more and more likely, will >women insist on the right to be drafted too? If the draft is reinstated, I will NOT waste my time trying to alter it so that women are drafted, I will fight so that *no-one* is drafted... As a feminist, my goal is that everyone is respected, and that the earth is respected -- not that everyone is oppressed equally! The draft is, I believe, one of the areas where men need liberation. >If not, do women really have the right to be treated equally by the >military? Of course. Why shouldn't they? Elissa Feit (feit@cs.buffalo.edu // {rutgers,uunet}!cs.buffalo.edu!feit) "I had to regain my confidence so I got into camoflauge. The girls they love to see you shoot." "I love a man in uniform." - Gang of Four
ag1v+@andrew.cmu.EDU ("Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz") (01/07/91)
[SOAPBOX ON]
Just a little tidbit of information.
The selective service throws away any cards turned in by women. I
no longer have the phone number that I called to ask them, but I'm sure
I can get it again. Or one could look in the phone book.
Whether people believe it or not, it is discriminatory against both
women and men to have only one sex being drafted. It is insulting to
both sexes to tell one (You're not worth a great deal to us, so we'll
send you to be killed) and the other (Oh, you just wouldn't be able to
cut it out there.)
It is everyone's right in this country to be treated equally in
regards to the professional world (and the military is a profession.)
To say that women should not be treated with equal respect in the
military as men is, IMO ludicrous. This will just drive what little
progress has been made in the military backwards.
It is the right of every citizen to be able to serve their country.
And IMO, it is the responsibility of each citizen of this country to
serve it when called upon to do so. This doesn't mean you agree with
the policies, or that you condone the behavior of the government. It
only means that you are being loyal and trying to do your part. Others
will definitely disagree with this opinion.
I am a volunteer member of the military (at this point in time that
is redundant.) I know many other PEOPLE who are also volunteers. If
the military does not now discriminate against women entering the
military, neither should they keep them safe from the draft. I consider
this a feminist point of view. Others might not.
If you've ever been in the military, AS A WOMAN, you know how
difficult it is to have people treat you as a fellow soldier. Military
men, in general, have a hard time looking at women as soldiers who can
do just a good a job as them. I've been told by many men (who haven't
seen combat) that they don't want women in combat and they don't think
it will work. I happen to differ with thier opinion. I also have
happened to change people's minds through my hard work and willingness
to be part of the team.
I may not be able to lift the same things in the same way, but I've
always been able to put on my thinking cap and find another way to do
it. Just because a man and a woman achieve a goal differently doesn't
mean that the finished products aren't equal to eachother. Nor are one
set of means better than another by the mere fact that one method was
done by a man and another by a woman.
And this is where people really need to look for the equality. Men
and women are not physically equal, but it doesn't mean that they can't
do the same physical tasks because there is always more than one way to
do things.
[SOAPBOX OFF]
Andrea Gansley-Ortiz