[soc.feminism] A question about "womyn"

scholl@uvmark.uucp (Kathryn Scholl) (03/08/91)

I am somewhat new to the net, and have noticed in many groups the word
"womyn" used instead of "women".  I am curious as to:

    - how long this word has been used.
    - why it is used (because "wo'men'" is considered an extension
         of "men" and they (we) want their (our) own word?).
    - who generally uses it (feminist literature, etc.), as I had
         never seen it before, and am not knowledgeable in the fem.lit.
         environment.
    - what type of response the usage of this word is getting outside
         of the circle(s) in which it is being used.
    - other "new" words of this kind, such as "her", "him", etc.

Please e-mail.  And please, no flames to the effect of "you are a
woman, you should have known this".  I am just trying to learn.

Thanks!
Kathryn

-- 
Kathryn Scholl
...uunet!merk!uvmark!scholl

kleinj@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (03/10/91)

"Womyn" commonly refers to lesbians--especially radical lesbian/feminists--
who refuse to use the word "men" in their identity.  'Nuff said.

[Would any straight women who use the spelling "womyn" care to respond?  - MHN]

WNR0@ns.cc.lehigh.edu (Whitney Noel Rearick) (03/13/91)

The derivation of the word 'woman' is literally 'wife of man'.
Similarly, 'female' is derived from the Latin 'to suckle'.  I, for
one, have not yet found a suitable word to describe myself!  Even
'human' describes me in terms of a man.  The rest of my life is not
defined relative to what a man is or does (or at least I try to act
that way), so why should the terms that describe me be so?

Hope that helped, even if in a strange way--it was rather painful for
me when I first heard it.

WNR0

nadel@aero.org (M.H. Nadel) (03/14/91)

In article <12039120:43:54WNR0@lehigh.bitnet> WNR0@ns.cc.lehigh.edu (Whitney Noel Rearick) writes:
>The derivation of the word 'woman' is literally 'wife of man'.

Actually, this is incorrect.  The word "man" originally referred
to any human, i.e. was entirely gender-neutral.  "Wifman" referred to a
female human and "werman" to a male human.  The "wer" prefix now exists only
in the word "werewolf".  (Hence, a woman who grows hair and claws and howls
and roams the countryside eating people at the full moon is properly referred
to as a "wifwolf" but I am, so far as I know, the only person to use that term.)

Somewhere along the line, the "wer" prefix fell into disuse and the word
"man" became ambiguous.  The "wif" prefix mutated into "wo", and also 
retained a separate existence as the word "wife."  Note that "wife" did not
necessarily refer to a married woman until fairly recently (maybe the 19th
century).  In colonial America "goodwife" was essentially the equivalent of
"Ms." and became abbreviated to "goody."

While we're on this, the word "lady" is derived from "hleddige" meaning
a kneader of dough.  Of course, it came to mean precisely the sort of woman
who would never be seen baking her own bread as she'd have servants to do it.
And "girl" originally referred to a young child of either sex.  

The moral of which is that etymology doesn't tell you very much.


Miriam Nadel
-- 
"It is not the kind of play you would expect from a six-foot-five man who once
played a giraffe on Broadway."                    
                         - Kelli Pryor, reviewing Keith Curran's _Dalton's Back_
nadel@aerospace.aero.org

jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) (03/14/91)

> The derivation of the word 'woman' is literally 'wife of man'.
___
 __ *Heavy*sigh*.  The problem with etymology is that it's too
  _ easy for hypotheses and even wild-assed-guesses to sound
    plausible.  "Wife of man" is an example of this, and while
    it's been made quite popular, it just isn't true.
___
 __ There once was a time, way, way back, when "man" did not
  _ mean male.  A female person was a "wyfman" and a male
    person was a "werman."  "Wyfman" begat "woman" and "wife,"
    and "werman" begat "werewolf."
___
 __ Much later, readers and writers of English, who were over-
  _ whelmingly male, pitched the "wer-" prefix and started using
    "man" to refer to maile people.  (And much later, of course,
    they attempted to resurrect "man" as a false generic term
    for either sex.)
___
 __ The point is that the "man" in "woman" has nothing to do with
  _ males, nor relationships to same.
___
 __ My understanding is that the word "womyn" was coined on the
  _ basis of this false etymology, and that once the error was
    pointed out it was decided to keep the term simply to assert
    separateness from men anyhow.

> Even 'human' describes me in terms of a man.
___
 __ *Heavier*sigh*.  No, "human" comes from a whole 'nother root.
  _ And before anyone brings up the third popular etymological
    fallacy, "manual" has nothing to do with males either.
    <_Jam_>