jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) (04/24/91)
d> = dgross@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
l> = lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
___
__ The entirety of dgross' article ignores the distinctions
_ between the various varieties of feminism that exist (most
of which were recounted in my article of March 8th, "Radical
(and Other Types of) Feminism"). Practically all of what he
calls "feminism" is the work of a movement known as *cultural*
feminism.
d> If you ask a feminist whether feminism is anti-male, he or she
d> will absolutely deny it.
___
__ Rephrase your question. Ask a feminist how *much* of feminism
_ is anti-male. Ask a feminist which parts of feminism are
anti-male. This will yield you far more information than
the questions you've been asking.
___
__ There are anti-male trends in feminism, especially cultural
_ feminism. But calling "feminism" anti-male is inaccurate.
d> I discovered one of my favorite anti-male feminist quotes when
d> I took "Sociology of Sex Roles" at Cal Poly a few quarters ago.
___
__ Sounds like this course is based almost entirely on the
_ writings of cultural feminists. I recommend you find _Women_
_and_Sex_Roles:_A_Social_Psychological_Approach_, by Irene
Frieze, _et_al_. Social psychology is a distinct science, but
it also embraces sociology, and the information you'll find in
that book will be more useful and accurate than the stuff your
course seems to have covered.
d> Think about the implications of [a Susan Griffin quote] for a
d> minute. That the difference between a heterosexual man and a
d> rapist is only one of degree.
l> This statement is shocking; it may also be true. I believe the
l> line of argument supporting this is based on studies of men's
l> attitudes.
___
__ No, the line of argument is based on the insular hypotheses of
_ cultural feminists who avoid contact with men yet feel quali-
fied to make generalizations about about us (and to declare
that those generalizations are biologically inherent).
___
__ Actual studies of rapists indicate that their attitudes follow
_ certain patterns that are *not* found in all men. It is true
that patriarchal attitudes accepted by most men reinforce and
encourage male rapists, but that is very far from the same
thing. And even so, it is not true that all heterosexual men
hold those attitudes.
l> I would defend the body of either Robin Morgan's or Susan
l> Griffin's work by humanistic as well as feminist criteria.
___
__ Both have mellowed in recent years, but I would be hard-
_ pressed to call either of them humanistic. Griffin has
embraced environmental concerns (in a "earth is a woman and
men rape her" vein, of course) and waxes spiritual, but
she has in fact drawn on Hitler as an inspiration for
organizing cultural feminism!
___
__ Morgan stole her best stuff from men whom she would later
_ denigrate, which doesn't strike me as the best route towards
women's liberation. :-)
l> "Against our Will" was one of the first books to speak about
l> the subject of rape, and has been influential.
___
__ The main problem with the book is that it's filled with very
_ important truths that needed to be publicized, coupled with
a powerful ideological framework based on lies about men:
the notion that all men cooperate to rape all women. (I call
it a lie because Brownmiller has admitted to knowing that
it's not true of all men, but went ahead and said it anyhow,
so as to make the statement more powerful.)
___
__ I've worked at one of the first rape crisis centers to
_ challenge this ideology. It did wonders for us, in fact:
our counselors stopped burning out so frequently, and they
reported doing a better job of "connecting" with clients.
Other rape crisis centers treated us like heretics, though!
d> [My position] is not likely to change until the "mainstream"
d> feminists start denouncing feminists like Brownmiller and
d> Griffin and Solanis as the hate-filled sexists that they are.
___
__ You left out Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin (I guess your course
_ didn't touch on them---count your blessings). The problem is
that there isn't much of a "mainstream" around these days.
Radical feminism fizzled out with the other radical movements
in the early 1970s. Liberal feminism got co-opted (as liberals
often do). Cultural feminism was never very big, but for a
while it was the only game in town. It's fizzled out too, but
its artifacts remain as the most recent large body of litera-
ture bearing the name "feminism."
___
__ The time is certainly ripe for feminism to blossom again.
_ There are rumblings in the bisexual women's movement that
look very good (IMHO, of course---I'm personally fond of
late-1960s radical feminism, and I've seen some resemblance),
but it remains to be seen if a large movement will result.
<_Jym_>