vince@software.mitel.com (Vince Mous) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr14.222759.13730@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes: > > (Dave Gross writes:) > >I discovered one of my favorite anti-male feminist quotes [...] > > "[I]f the professional rapist is to be separated from the > > average dominant [male] heterosexual, it may be mainly a > > quantitative difference." > >Think about the implications of that one for a minute. That the > >difference between a heterosexual man and a rapist is only one of > >degree. >This statement is shocking; it may also be true. I believe the line >of argument supporting this is based on studies of men's attitudes. >They suggests that the idea of rapists as a distinct group of wackos >is misleading; that as men we need to examine our own socialization >for things which when pushed further can lead to rape. Actually, if U read the statement, it talks about the average DOMINANT male heterosexual. Now, i don't know what was meant by dominant, or how common it is, but i also tend to agree that this is true. An anonymous poll we conducted at Ottawa U showed some alarming figures. We passed out a questionnaire to guys at both University bars a few afternoons in a row, as well as had a table out two whole days in the University Center. The poll wasn't very scientific, but valuable nonetheless: YES NO MAYBE 1) Would you commit rape? 2 340 1 2) Would you force a woman to have 19 302 22 sex if you felt you were led on? 3) Would you feel you were entitled 197 (!) 93 53 to sex if you spent more than $50 on a woman? 4) Would you force a woman to have 86 (!) 156 99 (!) sex if you spen more than $50 on her? 5) When a woman says no, does she 56 74 213 (!) really mean no? 6) Would you force a woman to have 207 (!) 91 44 sex if you were sure not to get caught? 7) Have you made a sexist joke within 143 50 128 the last few months? There were 343 questionnaires. The numbers might not add up, as everyone didn't answer all questions, especially last question. i let the number speak for themselves. >What follows was originally posted on a mailing list on bisexuality in >response to a thread about whether men could be feminists. >The original poster seemed angry about men calling themselves >feminists but not really having a clue what woman's life was like. (I >regard this as a legitimate argument, but not as one having absolute >status.) I see this as related because it explains my attraction to >feminism, some of my responses to the divisions within feminism and >its attitudes toward men. i don't. There are many different types of feminism, and though i am not even involved in the movement per se, i consider myself a feminist. Why? i speak out at every opportunity i get against sexism and 'chauvinistic' attitudes such as 'no means yes', or jokes about rape etc. i will, and i have stated clearly that saying such things is unnacceptable, and i will not stand for it (silence is often acquiescence). i consciously do NOT buy from companies who use exploitative themes in their commercial and advertisements, on TV or otherwise. i will also not frequent establishments where such exploitation is made, such as strip clubs. Though i know that some feminists do not object to them, saying that they don't feel exploited at such places, i would feel exploitING. Finally, i view women as people first, as i do men, and have as many friends of both sexes, with my current best friend being a woman. And no, i am not gay or bisexual either (i know they usually have a better attitude towards women than normal men). i think this makes me a feminist, and that's why i call myself one. -- ___ __ ___ _ _ ____ ___ | \/ \ / _ \(o) (o)( __]/ _ \ (vince@mitel.com) | |\/| |( <_> )\@^@/ _\ \ ( </ / 'SOURIS puisque c'est grave 8^)' |_| |_| \___/ ={.}=[____) \____] Are you a man or a mouse? BOTH
falk@peregrine.eng.sun.COM (Ed Falk) (04/26/91)
In article <7582@vince> vince@software.mitel.com (Vince Mous) writes: >In article <1991Apr14.222759.13730@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes: > >An anonymous poll we conducted at Ottawa U showed some alarming figures. > > YES NO MAYBE > > 1) Would you commit rape? 2 340 1 > > 2) Would you force a woman to have 19 302 22 > sex if you felt you were led on? > > 3) Would you feel you were entitled 197 (!) 93 53 > to sex if you spent more than > $50 on a woman? [etc.] Scary numbers alright. Question: did you give a poll like this to women? If not, why not. If so, could you post the results? It would be interesting to have questions worded both ways: Would you feel a man was entitled to sex if he spent more than $50 on you? Would you feel you were entitled to sex if you spent more than $50 on a man? -ed falk, sun microsystems sun!falk, falk@sun.com In the future, somebody will quote Andy Warhol every 15 minutes.