pad6516@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (DANN, PA) (05/02/91)
Before I make any of the comments that I am about to make just let me say Please do not flame the shit out of me. These are just thoughts that I am looking for answers to. I do not want an attack, Ideas! GENERALLY SPEAKING The way I see society is that it is based on the discoveries, inventions, and ideas of the male species. The freedom that we as Americans have is basically the result of the men. With that, much of the death and War is because of the male species. I think the reason for such male domination is that men have not let women even participate in these areas. What would society be like if men had let women be equals from day one? I think the added benefit are incomprehendable. Would a woman invented the plane say 20 years before the first man did? Very possible! I think male domination is the result of the old physical labor based society. It started out like that and only in the last, lets say, 50 years has society began to change to a more intellectual based society. That is people make a living based on intellect rather than physical strength. And everyone knows that males are stronger physically than females. But the way society is today anyone can do anything they want almost enitirely base on brain power. (there are still exceptions-chauvinists(sp)) But I see women having more opportunities than ever. Is anyone familiar with Romantic and Classic ways of thinking? Well females tend to think romantically and males classically. A classic way of thinking is how a male looks at the beauty of a car. The engine and its parts, what makes it go fast, its pistons, and spark plugs, and fuel injection. While a female looks at the color and the interior and whether it matches. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with that, so don't get pissed! I think we all could benefit if males and females could have a mix of both. But of course this way of thinking is a result of upbringing from childhood, because I am sure we all know women who are into the workings of cars and males that are interior decorators. I am speaking as a wholeAnd vice versa. Women are generally not into that. Well I suspect that I will get killed for my ideas on the subject but I would like to know what other people think. Please do not tell me I am wrong because everyonge is entitled to there opinion and I would like to hear other peoples opinions! In fact to all you feminists out there I think the socitey could benefit greatly if men would let women get more involved in it. It is changing but it takes time! With this in mind its pretty logical as to why men invent cars that go faster or space shuttles that don't blow up anymore, that is what they are into. It also shows the reason why music is generally male dominate
ptgarvin@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (PTed Garvin) (05/06/91)
In article <1991May1.175906.5106@isc.rit.edu> pad6516@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: > Before I make any of the comments that I am about to make just >let me say Please do not flame the shit out of me. These are just thoughts >that I am looking for answers to. I do not want an attack, Ideas! Courtesy and flaming don't mix. >strength. And everyone knows that males are stronger physically than >females. But the way society is today anyone can do anything they want Things "everybody knows" are often false. I know some women who are MUCH stronger than I. It's often not how much you have, but how willing you are to use what you have. >Well females tend to think romantically and males classically. A classic >way of thinking is how a male looks at the beauty of a car. The engine and >its parts, what makes it go fast, its pistons, and spark plugs, and fuel >injection. While a female looks at the color and the interior and whether >it matches. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with that, I'd say this was a stereotype. I certainly don't think that way. What goes through my mind when I look at a car is how gas efficient it would be, how much it pollutes the environment, etc. Come to think of it, maybe I think classically after all (but then, so do many women). Maybe a new category should be used, like "practical" thinking. >upbringing from childhood, because I am sure we all know women who are into >the workings of cars and males that are interior decorators. I am speaking Disclaimer noted. >are into. It also shows the reason why music is generally male dominate Hunh? I always thought of music as feminine, for some reason. Must be that classical Greek muse stuff. -- "...just when I had you wriggling in the crushing grip of reason, too..." ptgarvin@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu / ptgarvin@uokmax.UUCP | Wassail! O in the Society: Padraig Cosfhota o Ulad / Barony of Namron, Ansteorra | Disclaimer: Fragile. Contents inflammable. Do not use near open flame. ___|___
Julianne.Coleman@ebay.sun.COM (Julianne Coleman) (05/08/91)
In article <1991May1.175906.5106@isc.rit.edu> pad6516@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: > > Before I make any of the comments that I am about to make just >let me say Please do not flame the shit out of me. These are just thoughts >that I am looking for answers to. I do not want an attack, Ideas! > > GENERALLY SPEAKING The way I see society is that it is based >on the discoveries, inventions, and ideas of the male species. The >freedom that we as Americans have is basically the result of the men. {...} > > I think male domination is the result of the old physical labor >based society. It started out like that and only in the last, lets say, >50 years has society began to change to a more intellectual based society. One flaw in your "ideas" is the statement that the basis for male dominination was the physical work done by men up until the last 50 years. If you go far far back, you will find, in many cultures that women did all the planting and cultivating which provided 80% of the sustenance for the family. Women built the huts and did all the housework. Men more likely hunted and had time for religion and the like. Taking this track, society became male dominated because men were only in the social arena and didn't do work, real physical work. Granted, I am talking only about several ancient tribes, but even in the pioneering west women HAD to work in the fields and tending to a home was not simple. The argument that women are weaker doesn't hold much water with me. I understand that on average women do not have as much arm strength as men, but absolutes mean just about nothing. What you need to look at is what people are capable of doing. In many situations women HAVE to acheive some level of strength, they have no choice and they accomplish it. Have the same situation with a "stronger" man, and the man takes the task/is asked to take the task and he accomplishes it. You are very right that society today is different because strength is not as important. Also, maintaining a home has become less physically demanding, we dont make soap we buy it, we dont hand wring clothes the washer does. In this way what women have traditionally done has been changed and women are "free" to do other things. What hasn't happened, and needs to, is that men have to have the same types of changes and opportunities. Julianne Coleman julianne.coleman@ebay.sun.com
jeffb.bbs@shark.cs.fau.EDU (Jeffrey Boser) (05/08/91)
pad6516@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (DANN, PA) writes: [part of quotes deleted for brevity] > Is anyone familiar with Romantic and Classic ways of thinking? > Well females tend to think romantically and males classically. A classic > way of thinking is how a male looks at the beauty of a car. The engine and > its parts, what makes it go fast, its pistons, and spark plugs, and fuel > injection. While a female looks at the color and the interior and whether > it matches. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with that, > so don't get pissed! I think we all could benefit if males and females could > have a mix of both. But of course this way of thinking is a result of > upbringing from childhood, because I am sure we all know women who are into > the workings of cars and males that are interior decorators. I am speaking > as a wholeAnd vice versa. Women are generally not into that. Well I suspect > that I will get killed for my ideas on the subject but I would like to > know what other people think. Please do not tell me I am wrong because > everyonge is entitled to there opinion and I would like to hear other > peoples opinions! In fact to all you feminists out there I think the > socitey could benefit greatly if men would let women get more involved > in it. It is changing but it takes time! I think your ideas have possibilities, and it is not my intention to flame them. I would like to offer an alternative: that men and women function differently mentaly. I am not saying a huge difference, but even a 5% difference over so huge a time scale can be overwhelming. Like the original posting, these are indicators of general patterns: The sci-fi/fantasy field tends to be dominated by women. Which is weird, as there are women in it, the oportunities exist, but few women are major players in the field. Every single woman I know does not like to read it as a general rule, while many men I know live on the stuff. When men talk about sex, the majority of it is vague, leaving much to the imagination, hinting and indicating. I have listened to women talk about sex, and the majority of it is detailed, leaving little to the imagination. A man gets revenge, a woman hates... I realize that these might be exaggerations, but I think that men and women handle abstractions and symbols differently. I think that oppression does not explain the huge dominence that men have in some fields... it might have encouraged it, but I do not think it is the whole answer... It might have to do with their raising, but then again, it might only have encouraged it. .....jeff jeffb.bbs@shark.cs.fau.edu "Make something an idiot can use, and only an idiot will use it" -RAH Like a Bible, maybe?
lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.EDU (05/08/91)
"Anonymous was a woman" In article <1991May1.175906.5106@isc.rit.edu> pad6516@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (DANN, PA) writes: > GENERALLY SPEAKING The way I see society is that it is based > on the discoveries, inventions, and ideas of the male species. The > freedom that we as Americans have is basically the result of the men. [... goes on at length...] The problem with this line of argument is that men are much more likely get historical credit for anything they do. It is worth looking at what a little historical digging by historians and anthropologists with alternate viewpoints have found. Documented examples of suppressed and forgotten history get harder to substantiate as one goes further back, but there are definite trends. Being male, christian, european, heterosexual or upper-class each tend to make one's acts better recorded in the times and cultures leading to ours. Read "The Dinner Party" or "Gay American History" or "Orginial Blessing" or histories of Islam tracing its contributions to europe ... almost anything that starts from a different norm, and you will find parts of history that are largely ignored. Scholars may know of it but it's not in the dominant mythos. Read "How To Suppress Woman's Writing" by JoAnna Russ. If you argue that in X culture there was a division of labor between men and women doing Y and Z, it is still likely that women made inventions in their spheres of activity. Another source of historical bias that may be related is that inventions and cultural traits that serve imperialism are spread by cultural conquest.
dnettles@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David E Nettles) (05/09/91)
In article <1991May1.175906.5106@isc.rit.edu> pad6516@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: > > > > Before I make any of the comments that I am about to make just >let me say Please do not flame the shit out of me. These are just thoughts >that I am looking for answers to. I do not want an attack, Ideas! > > GENERALLY SPEAKING The way I see society is that it is based >on the discoveries, inventions, and ideas of the male species. The >freedom that we as Americans have is basically the result of the men. >With that, much of the death and War is because of the male species. >I think the reason for such male domination is that men have not let >women even participate in these areas. What would society be like if men >had let women be equals from day one? I think the added benefit are >incomprehendable. Would a woman invented the plane say 20 years before >the first man did? Very possible! > ...Seems quite reasonable... > I think male domination is the result of the old physical labor >based society. It started out like that and only in the last, lets say, >50 years has society began to change to a more intellectual based society. >That is people make a living based on intellect rather than physical >strength. And everyone knows that males are stronger physically than >females. But the way society is today anyone can do anything they want >almost enitirely base on brain power. (there are still >exceptions-chauvinists(sp)) But I see women having more opportunities than >ever. > YES!!! Very true!!!! Severly physically handicapped persons can even compete well in today's society! Muscles and strength are virtual non-issues. > Is anyone familiar with Romantic and Classic ways of thinking? >Well females tend to think romantically and males classically. A classic >way of thinking is how a male looks at the beauty of a car. The engine and >its parts, what makes it go fast, its pistons, and spark plugs, and fuel >injection. While a female looks at the color and the interior and whether >it matches. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with that, >so don't get pissed! But this "different" way of looking at things is much more the result of social presure put upon us as children AND as adults. For instance, while growing up girls could describe a flower using the word "pretty" and boys had to use other words (or none at all) else be labelled a sissy. Oh... I'm not pissed... (trust me, if I have sons and daughters they will know how to appreciate it all. It's more fun that way!) > I think we all could benefit if males and females could >have a mix of both. But of course this way of thinking is a result of >upbringing from childhood, because I am sure we all know women who are into >the workings of cars and males that are interior decorators. I am speaking >as a wholeAnd vice versa. Women are generally not into that. Well I suspect >that I will get killed for my ideas on the subject but I would like to >know what other people think. Please do not tell me I am wrong because Yeah, but it is more society than biology. >everyonge is entitled to there opinion and I would like to hear other >peoples opinions! In fact to all you feminists out there I think the >socitey could benefit greatly if men would let women get more involved >in it. It is changing but it takes time! > VERY TRUE!!! It's more fun knowing people when you knoq the field is even and fair... knowwhatImean? > With this in mind its pretty logical as to why men invent cars that >go faster or space shuttles that don't blow up anymore, that is what they >are into. It also shows the reason why music is generally male dominate --- David Nettles "JUSTICE: It's what comes _before_ the law!" - me