socko.curt@uunet.uu.net (06/21/89)
[I'd like to remind people that the discussion of creationism and evolution per se should be done on talk.origins, not in this group. This posting seems to be on the Biblical/theological implications, and is not arguing for either position, so I'm putting it here. But please do not respond by arguments for or against evolution. I have combined two separate postings, in order to make sure that they come out in the right order. --clh] I want to briefly present certain, perhaps unusual, considerations about the two theories that are currently popular (within the Church body) regarding the origin of life. First, we have theistic evolution -- that is, evolution controlled by God. For this to have happened, God must have -- over a duration of billions of years -- continuously and exactly controlled every single detail of the environmental conditions of the entire world and, ultimately, universe. He must have exactly controlled every earthquake, every volcano, every storm, every cloud, every breeze, every day's intensity of sunlight and moonlight, every raindrop, every wave, the erosion of every particle of sand. He must have continuously and exactly controlled every reproduction and every mutation of every gene of every creature and every plant that has ever lived (or that is now living!). Ultimately, for evolution to have occurred, God must have precise, individual control of every single molecule (atom, proton, etc, etc) in the entire universe. Now *that* is a big task. Is the God in Whom you believe too small for that task? Second, we have Biblical Creation. For this to have happened, God must have instantaneously created, shaped, organized, positioned, and set in motion the entire universe -- every galaxy, every star, every planet, and (albeit in a couple of instantaneous steps) the whole of earth's population -- every fish, every bird, every land animal, every plant, every bacteria. He must have instantaneously created, shaped, organized, positioned, and joined every organ, every cell, and every gene of every individual creature and plant and simultaneously have endowed it with life. In the same instant, He must also have endowed every creature with its entire repertoire of capabilities and instincts, intertwining those capabilities with all the other creatures around it to produce the whole of the earth's ecosystem. Ultimately, for Creation to have occurred, God must have precise, individual control of every single molecule (atom, etc, etc) in the entire universe. Now *that* is a big task. Is the God in Whom you believe too small for that task? It is most intriguing that the topic of this very hot debate is directly addressed and even *taunted* by God Himself (no doubt purely by coincidence ;-) ). Starting at Job 38:1 (NIV): Then the Lord answered Job out of the storm. He said: "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone -- while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? ... (40:2) "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!" ------------- Subject: References regarding Genesis For those who are interested, I thought it would be useful to share some verses from other parts of the Bible that shed some light on Genesis. Each of the following refers directly to the Creation, or to some specific person mentioned in Genesis up through and including Noah, or to the Flood: Ex 20:11 Ex 31:17 1Chron 1:1-4 Ps 33:6,9 Ezek 14:14 Mth 19:4-9 Mth 23:35 Mth 24:37-39 Mark 10:6-12 Luke 3:35-38 Luke 11:50-51 Luke 17:26-27 Rom 5:12-19 1Cor 15:21-22 1Cor 15:45 1Tim 2:13-14 Heb 11:3-7 Heb 12:24 1Pet 3:20 2Pet 2:5 2Pet 3:5-6 1John 3:12 Jude 1:11-14 (The above list is not exhaustive -- it's simply what I came up with from a couple sessions of following cross-references.) Of course, although all of the above verses refer directly to Genesis, they can be interpreted in ways that don't necessitate that Genesis be actual history. (For some of them it is difficult, but still possible.) But the most obvious interpretations of the above verses do seem to provide substantial Scriptural evidence in favor of interpreting Genesis as straitforward and, yes, the "L" word (literal). On the other hand, a friend directed me to a passage which (IMHO) provides much better support for theistic evolution than does an inobvious interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis. This passage is Psalm 104, which is in marvelous accord with theistic evolution. Picking up at verse 27 (NIV): These all look to you to give them their food at the proper time. When you give it to them, they gather it up; when you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust. When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth. ------------------------ Curt McCorkle "They're gonna hit you from all sides uunet!littlei!socko:curt Better make up your mind OR littlei!donk!curt Who to, who not to listen to." --Amy Grant [This passage certainly has echoes of Genesis 1 and 2. I suppose everybody realizes by now that breath and spirit are the same word in Hebrew. --clh]