car@cblpn.att.com (Clarissa A Brower) (08/17/89)
[This is a response to <Aug.3.22.04.58.1989.28475@athos.rutgers.edu>,
from Dave Mielke. --clh]
Dave's first point is that Christians are saved from suffering in Hell:
[Quotation omitted. Dave emphasizes that many will think they are
saved but are not. In order to be saved you must realize that you
deserve to suffer eternally in hell. Denying the existence of hell
means that you have't really accepted Jesus as savior. Similarly,
Jesus is God Himself become man to endure the penalty you deserve. If
you do not believe that he is God, you have not accepted him as
savior. --clh]
Let me state up front that I believe that there is a real Hell that
has been set up for the Devil and his angels but that all humans deserve
to be sent there as well for their rebellion against God. I believe that
Christ died for our sins and paid the penalty for us, so that Christians
no longer need to be afraid of this penalty - He paid the penalty, once
for all.
Dave's second major point is that someone who is consistently and knowingly
committing a sin is not saved:
[Quotation omitted. Dave says there are people who profess
Christianity, but arean't really Christians because they openly commit
sins such as living with someone without being married. He sees this
as placing self-interested above respect for what Jesus did, and
taking his forgiveness for granted. If someone willingly sins just
because he believes he is forgiven, Dave is very doubtful that he has
really accepted Christ as his savior. --clh]
A summary of his second point is: If you know that you are consistently
sinning in a particular area (e.g., adultery/fornification), and yet do it
anyway, you're probably not saved.
Paul in Romans chapters 5 and 6 addressed this problem. He explained (5:20):
{ All of the following biblical quotes are from the NASV. }
"And the Law came in that transgression might increase;
but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,"
Then Paul raises a hypothetical objection in 6:1 -
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin
that grace might increase?"
That is, if we can sin and get away with it, why shouldn't we go ahead and sin
it up! Paul's response is lengthy but here are the first two verses (6:2-3) -
"May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still
live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who
have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized
into His death?"
Notice that Paul's approach is not to say: "If you continue to live in sin,
you're not really saved."
Instead his answer is basically: Since that is what you're thinking about,
you obviously don't understand what has happened. You are no longer a slave
to your old sin nature, it has been crucified with Christ (vs. 6).
"for he who has died is freed from sin." (vs. 7)
The point is: Because of our union with Christ we don't have to sin anymore.
"For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under
grace." (vs. 14)
Then, Paul continues with the following hypothetical objection (vs. 15):
"What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law
but under grace?"
Answer: "May it never be!" And then the real clincher, vs. 20-23:
"For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard
to righteousness. Therefore what benefit were you then
deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For
the outcome of those things is death. But now having been
freed from sin and enslaved by God, you derive your benefit,
resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is
eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord"
The way I read this (together with the rest of the Scriptures, esp. Rom. 12:1)
is that now that we are free to live the righteous life, we should because
it is a better life to lead, *NOT* because I will go to hell if I don't.
Rom. 8:15 specifically says that we are no longer to have a spirit of slavery
to fear, but we have been accepted into God's family such that we can call
God "Daddy" and we are co-heirs with Christ (vs. 17). Romans chapters 7 and 8
are primarily concerned with the idea that we are not to become sanctified by
trying to *NOT DO* something wrong (which is living in the flesh and is bound
to fail) but by relying on God to help us to *DO* something right (which is
living in the Spirit and is bound to succeed).
I hope that this information will be of benefit to someone on this net,
Mark Brower
mtb@cblpn.att.com
P.S.: This is being posted through my wife's account but she agrees with the
viewpoint.