[soc.religion.christian] Albigenses

plaisted@cs.unc.edu (David Plaisted) (08/17/89)

The Albigenses were a religious group in France in the Middle Ages.  A
recent posting asserted that they were Manicheans.  However, I doubted
this.  Here are the results of some checking of references.  Perrin,
Gretzer, and Favyn claim that they are another branch of the
Waldenses; the Waldenses dwelt in Italy in the Middle Ages and were
almost eliminated by persecution in the 17th century.  The Albigenses
are also similar to the Paulicians, who are also accused of being
Manicheans.  However, Gibbon vigorously denies this, as does Faber.
In the early 13th century, the Catholic church sponsored a bloody
crusade against the Albigenses, promising forgiveness of all sins to
those who participated.  The Albigenses were exterminated or exiled.
The Albigenses were one of a number of groups in Europe during the
Middle Ages who had the Scriptures and held to them and denied the
authority of the Pope, the mass, the adoration of Mary, the veneration
of saints, auricular confession, and so on; thus, their faith was in
many ways similar to modern Protestant faith.  To me it seems that a
Bible based faith does not mix with Manicheanism.  A Roman Catholic
historian (Favyn) asserts that the doctrines of Jovinianus were passed
on to Vigilantus and then to the Waldenses and Albigenses and from
them to Huss and Jerome's followers and Wycliffe; this is an evidence
of their purity (from a Protestant point of view).  The purity of the
Waldenses' faith was attested by Protestants who met with them after
the Reformation, according to McCabe.  Anyway, I think we should be
careful, in our ease and prosperity, not to judge as heretics those
who suffered and died for their faith, without careful examination.
I hope someone finds this information interesting.

	Dave Plaisted
	plaisted@cs.unc.edu

(The Lollards were also called Manicheans in the same posting;
they were followers of Wycliffe.)

[I'm certainly not in a position to respond authoritatively.  I can
only say that every church history I have read, including major
Protestant writers, classifies the Albigenses as similar to
Manicheans.  But it could be that they are working from suspect
information.  One problem is that both the Albigenses and the
Waldensians covered a fairly large area over a fairly large period of
time.  So there may well have been differences in practice.  I agree
with your characterization that the Waldensians are basically
main-stream Protestants who just had the bad luck to start too early.
However in Southern France there was apparently some contact between
the Waldensians and Albigenses, and some (probably small number of)
Waldensians rejected the created world in Manichean fashion.  I agree
that the evidence is not helped by the fact that it mostly comes from
the inquisition.  But it does appear that most Protestant historians
are willing to credit it.  Both Roland Bainton (in "Christianity") and
John Clare (in the Eerdman's Handbook to the History of Christianity)
portray the Albigenses as clearly Manichean.  They believed in two
gods, good and bad.  Matter was evil.  The OT was rejected, as was the
Christ's incarnation.

I didn't see any evidence of heresy on the part of the Lollards, but I
don't have as much information about them as about the Albigenses.
(And even that is not exactly primary source material.)  Do we have
anyone who is familiar with the primary sources from this period?

--clh]