jmsst22@unix.cis.pitt.edu (James M Stowe) (09/15/89)
I have recently been studying the different views on Christ's millenial kingdom (premillenialism, dispensationalism, amillenialism, etc.). However, my only references so far (other than scripture of course) have been William Hedrickson's "More than Conquerers" and another text called "Meaning of the Millenium". Any other references that anyone can suggest would be greatly appreciated. Also any personal opinions on the subject are very welcome. I am primarily interested on how the various viewpoints deal with certain eschatological events (ie. Resurection of the Saints, "rapture", 2nd Coming, ect.) Thank you in advance, James M. Stowe jmsst22@unix.cis.pitt.edu
davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) (09/18/89)
In article <Sep.15.05.05.16.1989.18590@porthos.rutgers.edu> jmsst22@unix.cis.pitt.edu (James M Stowe) writes: > I have recently been studying the different views on Christ's millenial >kingdom (premillenialism, dispensationalism, amillenialism, etc.). >... > I am primarily interested on how the various viewpoints deal with certain >eschatological events (ie. Resurection of the Saints, "rapture", 2nd Coming, >ect.) The only reliable references for what God's precise plan is is the Bible. Using only the Bible I would like to start by discounting a couple of incorrect beliefs that people have developed, and then give you an accurate answer to your question. I would caution those who do not believe the following that they first make sure that any scenarios they wish to present can be supported by the Scriptures which I am quoting. I have such a high degree of confidence in the scenario which I shall be stating that I am more than willing to show how any other Scripture that anyone may want to use will support it. There are Scriptures which speak of a period of great tribulation. In Matthew 24:21, for example, Jesus tells us "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.". There are those who claim that God would never let His believers live through this period. The Scriptures, in fact, teach the exact opposite. Jesus continues in Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.". God will keep the length of this period of great tribulation to a minimum so that, for His elect's sake, flesh can be saved. In case you're currious, it would appear that this period will last for just over six years. Daniel 8:13-14 says "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain {saint} which spake, How long {shall be} the vision {concerning} the daily {sacrifice}, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.". We then read in Daniel 8:26 "And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told {is} true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it {shall be} for many days.". The closest that Jesus ever gets to offering His believers comfort with respect to this period of great tribulation can be found in Matthew 24:20 where He says "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:". Many people believe that the Scriptures teach that Satan will be bound for a literal one thousand year period beginning at some time in the future. A commonly used Scripture to "prove" this is Revelation 20:1-3 which says "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.". There is no Scripture which actually says that the one thousand year period mentioned in this Scripture will begin in the future. There are, however, two Scriptures which clearly indicate that it had already begun as of some point shortly after the crucifiction. 2 Peter 2:4 says "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast {them} down to hell, and delivered {them} into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;". Jude 6 says "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.". Both of these Scriptures speak of the fallen angels as having already been bound in chains until judgement day. There are those who say that God's use of the past tense in these Scriptures is merely figurative. This cannot be true because, when taken in full context, both of them fall among lists of judgements of God that all happened in the past. These other judgements include the flood of Noah's day, the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha, and the destruction of the unbelieving Israelites in the wilderness after they had been eyewitnesses of the great power of God when He led them out of Egypt. Here are those two Scriptures again, in their slightly larger contexts. 2 Peter 2:4-6 says "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast {them} down to hell, and delivered {them} into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth {person}, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned {them} with an overthrow, making {them} an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;". Jude 5-7 says "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.". Note that both these Scriptures state that all these judgements have been performed by God as an example for others. The fact that the binding of the fallen angels is included in these lists must mean that it, too, has taken place in the past as an example for others. You asked when the rapture would occur. Jesus seems to have made an extra special effort to give us this information in so far as it pertains to the sequencing of the events which will surround the end of time. He tells us four times in one chapter, John 6, that the believers will be raptured on the "last day". In John 6:39 He says "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.". In John 6:40 He says "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.". In John 6:44 He says "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.". In John 6:54 He says "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.". As if this weren't enough, Martha makes the same statement to Jesus a few chapters later as a confirmation of her faith. John 11:24 says "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.". I don't think we can be left with very much doubt that the rapture will take place on whatever God refers to as "the last day". These Scriptures do not yet tell us, however, whether this phrase is referring to days as we know them or just to some figurative time period. We are told, however, in the same Gospel account, that the judgement of the unsaved will also begin on the last day. In John 12:48 Jesus says "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.". This same Gospel account also tells us in a different way that the rapture and the judgement will begin at the same time. In John 5:28-29 Jesus says "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.". Note that the word "hour" is singular and not plural. Also note the use of the word "all". If the rapture and the judgement are to begin at the same time then it would be a reasonable assumption that there will be nothing left here on this earth for Christ to reign over for a thousand years. We must never stop at merely assuming something, however, without further Scriptural support. In Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.". God will begin the destruction of this universe IMMEDIATELY AFTER the period of great tribulation, and then will return to rapture those of His believers who are still living on the earth. With the sun turned off, the earth is clearly very rapidly on the way toward being unable to support human life. Once again we are left with the very strong impression that there will be nothing left here for Jesus to reign over for a thousand years. Let us not stop at this, however, because it, too, is only an assumption. Let us look for further Scriptural evidence. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive {and} remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive {and} remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.". For the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with the old English used in these quotations, the word "prevent" means "anticipate". This Scripture clearly says that once the believers have been raptured they will be with the Lord forever. If the believers go into heaven, and if the Lord comes to earth for a thousand year reign, then they would not be with Him forever beginning with the rapture. Perhaps you're not satisfied yet. Let's still call this merely an assumption and keep on looking for further Scriptural support. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 says "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.". The rapture will occur at the sounding of the last trumpet. This does not necessarily mean that a literal trumpet will sound, but it does give us a precise time reference. If we search the Scriptures we do find (in Revelation 9,11) a symbolic description of the events surrounding the end of time built around the blowing of seven trumpets. Revelation 11:15-18 says "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become {the kingdoms} of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.". This account tells us that, when the last trumpet is sounded, God will fulfill all His promises to the prophets, the saints, and those that fear His name, i.e. all the believers. This corresponds with what we read in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. This account also says that God will begin a reign that will last forever, and not just for a thousand years. It also says that He will, at that same moment, begin His judgement and destruction of the unsaved. There can be no doubt whatsoever that both the rapture and the judgement will occur right at the end of time as we know it, and that the one and only passage in the entire Bible (Revelation 20:1-3) that appears to declare that Christ will have a one thousand year earthly reign cannot be interpreted literally if complete Scriptural harmony is to be maintained. Jesus Himself told Pontius Pilate, and us, that there was never any intent that He would be an earthly king. John 18:36 says "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.". I'm sure that all of this has left many of you wondering how I deal with the statements made in Revelation 20:1-3 if I wish to maintain Scriptural harmony. I wouldn't want to leave you in suspense. God often uses numbers in a figurative way. I'm sure that many of you have at least glimpsed this fact when studying the Scriptures. The numbers seven and twelve, for example, just occur far too often to be ignored. The number forty, for example, is often used to denote testing. Israel was in the wilderness for forty years to test their belief. Jesus was in the wilderness for forty days to test His ability to resist the temptations of Satan. God gave the people of the city of Neneveh, through the preaching of Jonah, forty days to repent. I'm sure that you are familiar with the one hundred and forty-four thousand people, spoken of in Revelation 7:4, who are sealed by God and allowed to enter heaven. It says "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: {and there were} sealed an hundred {and} forty {and} four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.". If this were a literal number then all of God's promises that the number of saved people will be so great that we would be unable to count them would be void. I'm sure that we all agree that no one of God's promises will ever become void. Confirmation of the fact that this number is figurative can be found just a little later in the same chapter. Revelation 7:9-10 says "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.". There are those who would have us believe that the great multitude of believers whom no man can count will be on earth and not in heaven, but this Scripture clearly says that they will be standing before the throne of God, which we know to be in heaven. Now what about the number "one thousand". It would appear that God doesn't mind shifting around the decimal point when using a number that He intends to use in a figurative way. Scripturally, we are permitted to treat the number "one thousand" as the number "ten". The number ten appears to be used throughout Scripture as meaning the completion of whatever is being discussed. We know from 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 that Satan and his band of fallen angels have already been bound in chains and reserved for judgement. This must mean that the one thousand years spoken of in Revelation 20:1-3 has already begun. I believe that this Scripture is telling us that Satan has been bound for the completion of God's plan. This Scripture also tells us that Satan will be loosed from his chains for a little season just before the end. This coincides with the period of great tribulation which will exist immediately before the end. The proof of why I feel the number ten means the completion of whatever is being discussed, or why I feel that any other number means whatever I feel it means, would be rather lengthy. I will get into it in a future posting if anyone wants me to. I shall give you a list of those numbers for which I believe there is a figurative meaning, and exactly what that meaning is. I urge you to test these suggestions by trying to apply them as you study the Scriptures. 1/3 the remnant chosen by grace 2/3 the unsaved 1 God Himself 2 either the church or the definite intent of God 3 the purpose of God 4 the whole world 5 grace or redemption 6 mankind 7 the perfection of whatever is being discussed 10 the completion of whatever is being discussed 12 the fullness of whatever is being discussed 17 heaven 23 judgement 40 testing I'm sure that there are many more numbers with figurative meanings, but these are the only ones which I am comfortable with. Note that these numbers also apply to the sizes of lists. A little earlier, for example, I quoted Revelation 7:9-10 which says "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.". Those who will enter heaven and stand before the throne of God, i.e. all believers, will be from every nation, kindred, people, and tongue. This list has four items in it. I believe, therefore, that this Scripture is telling us that God has elected people from all over the world to salvation, and has not offered any selected group of people preferential treatment. This is entirely consistent with all of those Scriptures which tell us that God is not a respecter of persons. Before I conclude I had better deal with one more point which I'm sure someone is just waiting to fault me on. Revelation 20:1-3 says that Satan, while he is bound in chains, will not be able to deceive the nations. I'm sure someone is wondering how I explain this statement in light of all the evil that we see going on around us in this world and in light of all the disbelief in God that we also observe. Before Satan was bound, which I believe took place when Jesus uttered the words "it is finished" while hanging on the cross just before His physical death, only a very few people actually became saved even though the earth had existed for thousands of years. Beginning at Penticost, and continuing right until this present day, people are becoming saved in relatively large numbers. I believe that this will continue right up until the beginning of the period of great tribulation when Satan will be loosed. I believe that the great tribulation which has never been known nor ever will be known again is not physical suffering, which we have always known, but rather it is the fact that no one else will become saved. The believers will suffer the great tribulation because they will no longer have any hope of seeing their loved ones come to a saving faith in Christ. The reason that a lot of people still remain in unbelief is that the Scriptures teach that it is not in man to believe in God anyway. Those who become saved cannot attribute it to their own efforts, but must attribute it solely to the grace of God. That's probably enough for now. I hope that at the very least, the contents of this posting will draw all of you even deeper into the Scriptures in a sincere effort to either prove or disprove what I have said. Acts 17:11 says "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.". Dave Mielke, 613-726-0014 856 Grenon Avenue Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K2B 6G3
john_r@uunet.uu.net (John Rushing) (09/20/89)
In response to James M. Stowe's request for resources dealing with the various
Christian eschatological positions, I would heartily recommend the following:
Paradise Restored - A Biblical Theology of Dominion
Days of Vengeance
The Great Tribulation
The above were written by David Chilton, Pastor of Church of the Redeemer, in
Placerville, CA. They are available through Dominion Press, Ft. Worth, TX.
These books do an excellent job of presenting the biblical case for
eschatological optimism, otherwise known as postmillenialism.
--
john e. rushing 1980 springer dr.
perle systems inc. lombard, illinois
UUCP: ...!uunet!mnetor!perle!john_r u.s.a. 60148
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) (09/23/89)
[In article <Sep.20.04.20.50.1989.19556@athos.rutgers.edu>, perle!john_r@uunet.uu.net (John Rushing) recommends several books by David Chilton on dominion theology. --clh] I've been reading somewhat on dominion theology. To me, it comes out that the author, David Chilton is pressing for the christians to prepare the way for Jesus upon His return. The idea is that Jesus will not or cannot come back until the christians prepare the earth for His arrival by arresting the governments of the world away from the secular powers into the hands of Christians. I have a feeling that this was tried in the past with its roots around 300 ad. and failed. David may be going backwards? Also, the author finds no place in God's plans for the Jews, that the new covenant somehow excludes them. David also seems to ignore altogether the promises of God in restoring the Jews. Any comments? A recent book that critiques David Chilton is Hal Lindsey's _the Road to Holocaust_. This book is a fine developement on the origin of anti-semitism, and bible scripture to counter David's claims. Well worth reading. Barry