rohwerwd@ucdavis.edu (W. David Rohwer) (09/27/89)
This article contains a logical scripture proof. If you decide to
discuss the proof, then please base your discussions on logic and not
faith.
Thanks,
W. David Rohwer
The following is my proof:
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1. By definition, Jesus and God are one. (Jesus = God)
Jn 10:30.
2. By definition, God is unchangeable.
Nu 23:19, 1 Sa 15:29, Job 36:5, Ps 33:11,
Ps 89:34, Ps 102:27, Ps 110:4, Mal 3:6,
Tit 1:2, Heb 6:17-18, Heb 38:8, Jas 1:17.
3. By definition, all Scripture is God's Word (All Scripture is
the inspired Word of God).
2 Ti 3:16
4. By definition, change means not identical or not the
same.
5. Scripture must not contain one or more changes to God.
From steps: 2-4.
6. If there are no changes to God in Scripture, then all
Scripture is God's Word.
From steps: 3, 5.
7. If there is at least one change to God in Scripture,
then Scripture is from 0% to 99.9999....% God's Word and
from 100% to 0.000....01% Man's Word.
Contradiction of step 6.
8. There is at least one change to God in Scripture.
(Ex 20:22-25 and Lev 24:17-20 and Dt 19:21) != Mt 5:38-40
9. There is at least one statement in Scripture that says that
a statement is from Man and not God.
1 Co 7:12
10. Therefore, Scripture is not all God's Word and is part, if
not all, Man's Word.
From steps: 7-9.
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The following is Scripture evidence that supports my proof.
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"Scripture taken from the HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION.
Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society. Used by
permission of Zondervan Bible Publishers."
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(Step 1 in proof)
This verse establishes that Jesus = God.
Jn 10:30 FOOTNOTE: The "Father" in the following passage is
God.
Jesus answered, ".... I and the Father are one."
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(Step 2 in proof)
The verses that follow are all the verses in the Bible that
pertain to the unchangeability of God:
Nu 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son
of man, that he should change his mind. Does he
speak and then not act? Does he promise and not
fulfill?
1 Sa 15:29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or
change his mind; for he is not a man, that he
should change his mind."
Job 36:5 God is mighty, but does not despise men; he is
mighty, and firm in his purpose.
Ps 33:11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the
purposes of his heart through all generations.
Ps 89:34 FOOTNOTE: The "I" in the following verse is God.
I will not violate my covenant or alter what my
lips have uttered.
Ps 102:27 FOOTNOTE: The "you" is the following verse is God.
But you remain the same, and your years will never
end.
Ps 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind:...
Mal 3:6 "I the LORD do not change. So you, O
descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed."
Tit 1:2 ...a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of
eternal life, which God, who does not lie,...
Heb 6:17-18 17. Because God wanted to make the unchanging
nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of
what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath.
18. God did this so that, by two unchangeable
things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we
who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to
us may be greatly encouraged.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and
forever.
Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above,
coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights,
who does not change like shifting shadows.
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(Step 3 in proof)
This verse in the Bible establishes that Scripture is all God's
word:
2 Ti 3:16 16. All Scripture is God-breathed....
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(Step 8 in proof)
I have come up with some verses that does show that God changes,
as specified in the following verses. First, I will quote 3 sets of
equivalent verses from the Old Testament, then I will quote some
verses from the New Testament that that contradict the Old Testament
verses.
Ex 20:22 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell the
Israelites this: '...
Ex 22:23-25 "But if there is serious injury, you are to take
life for a life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn,
wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
Lev 24:1 The LORD said to Moses, "...
Lev 24:17 "'If anyone takes the life of a human being, he
must be put to death.'
Lev 24:19-20 'If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he
has done must be done to him: fracture for
fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he
injured the other, so he is to be injured.'"
Dt 19:21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth
for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
As shown in the following verses, God has changed.
Mt 5:38-40 Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said,
'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell
you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone
strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the
the other one also. And if someone wants to sue
you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak
as well."
These verses say that if a person injures another person, then one
should not injure that person back. This contradicts the Old
Testament verses that say that if one is injured, then one should
injure the other person (Eye for Eye).
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(Step 9 in proof)
This verse establishes that there is at least one statement in
Scripture that says that this statement is from man and not God.
1 Co 7:12 FOOTNOTE: The "I" in 1 Co 7:12 refers to Paul.
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any
brother has a wife who is not a believer and
she is willing to live with him, he must not
divorce her.
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| W. David Rohwer | UUCP : {ucdavis|lll-crg}!csusac!rohwerwd |
| | Internet : rohwerwd@csusac.csus.edu |
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[I have severe qualms about dealing with religious texts in this way.
Of course that may be the whole point of the posting. But language
just isn't as clear-cut as this implies. Not just Biblical language
either, but language as normally used.
You assume
1. That when Jesus says he is at one with the Father, this means they
are precisely the same entity. There are a number of somewhat
looser senses available.
2. That God being unchangeable implies that his instructions to
different people at different times must be the same.
3. That there is a complete dicotomy between God's word and human
words, such that a thing can't be both at the same time.
Modern philosophers understand language as a far more subtle tool than
this. (I mention this because of your stress on logic.) If you're
interested, I think some of our readers probably have a better
background in philosphy than I do. I'd probably point you to writers
such as Searle.
--clh]