[soc.religion.christian] TWO SIDES of the $10 BILL - Further Discussion

davidbu@tekigm2.men.tek.com (David Buxton) (10/13/89)

(Continuing my $10 Bill discussion)

Not until the Holy Spirit gets through to people do  they  understand  that
they are sinners;  not until they come to Christ and know Him are they wil-
ling to be schooled by the law of God;  not until they come  to  Jesus  are
they  capable  of  discovering that they are truly condemned by the law and
not until they come to Jesus can they understand that  they  can  be  freed
from  their  bondage to sin.  Until then, they see nothing to be freed from
and cherish their freedom to "do their own thing".

-----

Freedom from God and His Commandments was the  siren  call  of  Lucifer  in
heaven.   Freedom  from  God and His Commandments was the siren call in the
Garden of Eden.  Freedom to "do your own thing"  is  what  we  want  to  do
today.   Before coming to the cross we think of this as freedom.  But is it
really?  Satan's claim has always been that no man can  keep  the  command-
ments  of God.  Under the first dispensation he is right.  But there is the
free gift of salvation that anyone can choose.  Satan is eager to  show  us
why he thinks this is a total loss of freedom and bondage to God.  This was
Lucifers delusion in heaven and 1/3 of the angels bought his neat ideas and
left with him to "do their own thing", free from God's Law in heaven.

Did they gain the freedom that they so eagerly sought?  No!!!  Compare  the
freedom  of the angels in heaven with God, under God's loving law, with the
'freedom' of Satan's host to "do their own thing" here on earth with  Satan
who  is  eager  to  convince everyone that true freedom is freedom from the
obligations of God's commandments.  Those on a free for  all  do  your  own
thing  trip are the ones most likely to be on suicide trips.  Those who get
involved in doing things for others are soon cleansed of  this  affliction.
Doing  your own thing is really not freedom after all.  Whose definition of
freedom do you wish to choose?  The Bible makes it  clear  that  we  cannot
choose both.  We must choose one or the other.  The ultimate choice belongs
to each one of us.  The Holy Spirit strives mightily with each one  of  us,
but  we  alone  must  choose between Jesus and Satan - between God's law vs
man's ways and traditions.

-----

What stands between the two sides of the Ten Dollar  Bill?  The  answer  is
simple.   It  is  the  cross  of  Calvary.  It is Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Until we come to the cross and lay everything at the foot of the  cross  of
Jesus  who  died  for  us;  until then we are under the dispensation of law
which condemns us to an eternal death.  Believing in  the  Lord  Jesus  and
coming  to  know  Him, brings us to an understanding that we are sinners in
need of the cross.  Until we bring everything to the cross,  we  are  under
the  Old  Dispensation which does condemn us.  This condemnation is just as
much in effect today as it was before Christ came to die.  But the gift  of
salvation is free.  It does not call for good works, it does not call for a
pure life, it does not call for victory  in  Christ.   We  simply  come  as
sinners  and  we leave our impossible burden of guilt and sin at the cross.
All we have to do is believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved.
We  can  be  delivered  from  our burden of sin and we can indeed be saved.
Jesus can do a mighty work to change our hearts if we will only let Him.

Let us say that we have someone here before us who finds that coming to the
cross  is  asking  too  much.  It calls for believing in Jesus and Jesus is
someone he does not know yet.  So he balks at the  cross  and  turns  back.
But this person is eager to go to heaven, if it turns out there is a heaven
he says to himself.  And so he determines to keep  the  commandments.   And
let  us  allow  that  he does indeed refrain from breaking any of God's Ten
Commandments.   Do we all know why such a keeping of the commandments  does
not save?  It is because this fine young man stands under the wrong dispen-
sation.   He has been a sinner all his life until this date.   Let us allow
that  he  breaks  no commandments the rest of his life.  He is proud of the
fact that he has not broken a single commandment since  a  specified  date.
And  yet he is a sinner and is condemned because of what he did before that
date.  It should be clear that we cannot save ourselves by anything that we
can possibly do.

It is the cross yesterday, today and tomorrow that stands between  the  two
dispensations  of law and grace.  I firmly believe that the central essence
and theme of salvation is eternal and has never changed and did not  change
on  the  day  that Christ died.  I do not teach that one dispensation is in
the Old Testament and the other in the New Testament.  No!  Each of the two
dispensations  stand on each side of the cross in a much more personal way.
There is the date on which each of us should be able to say we  first  came
to  Jesus and believed and left our burden of sin at the foot of the cross.
That is the date on which we accepted the new  dispensation.   But  let  us
also  remember Paul saying "I die daily".  We must each come to the foot of
the cross each day.  How quick and easy it is to revert  back  to  the  Old
Dispensation.   How easy it is to be smug in our own abilities to save our-
selves.  How quickly we do revert to our own ways and  means  and  the  Old
Dispensation.

-----

The New Testament is full of statements that the  Commandments  are  to  be
kept  and  that only those who keep the Commandments will find their way to
heaven.  Do we condemn these texts as legalism and discard them?  If the NT
law  is  Love  then  why  don't these texts say 'Love' in stead of 'Law' or
'Commandments'?  How do we reconcile these texts with the free gift of sal-
vation?  Jesus gave us the answer - "If you Love Me, Keep my Commandments".
It is the 'Placed in the Heart', 'New Heart', the 'Born  Again'  experience
that is the answer.

The New Testament is clear that the law of God  was  not  done  away  with.
Here  is one line of reasoning:  If it was done away with then every sinner
since Christ died is released from the condemnation of the  law  regardless
of  whether  they  come  to  the cross and to Christ or not.  Those who say
God's Law was nailed to the cross are in effect claiming that the need  for
Christ, in terms of salvation, was also nailed to the cross.  This teaching
basically says that because Christ died there is now no longer any need for
Christ  - in other words Christ died so that we no longer need Him.  But do
read these texts:  Where no law  is,  there  is  no  transgression.   (Rom.
4:15).   Sin  is the transgression of the law  (1 John 3:4).  Jesus pointed
to the Mishna keeping Pharisees and said their man made rules were  all  to
no  avail and that anyone who did not do better at keeping God's succinctly
stated law would not find his way to the kingdom.  Because the law remains,
we need a Saviour.

It is also clear that there is Grace to be found in the Old Testament.  The
Old  Testament looks forward to a Messiah who would come and the New Testa-
ment tells us about a Jesus who came.  The essence of salvation stands  the
same in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

-----

Anyone who claims to be a born  again  Christian  claims  to  have  brought
everything  to  the foot of the cross.  They have surrendered completely to
Jesus.  This is what the Bible means by believing in Jesus: they have  come
to  know  Him;  they  have come to Love Him; they believe in Him, they have
surrendered all to Him.  The born again Christian is eager to do  what  the
Lord would have him/her to do.  This calls for keeping the commandments and
obeying the Gospel Commission.  But let us be careful here.  We do  not  do
these  things in order to prove anything at all.  We do not do these things
in order to be saved, as salvation is an already accepted  free  gift.   We
simply  do  these  things  out of the fulness of our hearts filled with the
Love of Christ.  Jesus is the one who gives me a 'New Heart' and that  'New
Heart'  desires  to  do  what  He  would have me to do.  The 'New Heart' is
wherein lies the secret.   It is Him in us that keeps the commandments.  If
we  lack  the  desire to do all that He wants us to do then we do not solve
this problem by psyching up a greater determination to do right.  That does
not  mean  we give up the battle because we neglected the relationship.  It
means the relationship is what will restore our motivation.  We seek to tap
ourselves deeper into the true vine that is our Lord Jesus Christ.  We turn
to Him in prayer and plead for the victory and we go forward in  Faith,  we
purpose  in  our  hearts  that we will be victorious - as Daniel did and so
many other's in the Bible did - they each made their simple  statements  of
Faith.

With the true heavenly motivation of Jesus Christ in our hearts it is  per-
fectly  ok to do His bidding in all things that He asks of us to do.  It is
Jesus in us that gains the victory over sin.  It is Jesus in us that  keeps
the Commandments of God.  With Jesus in us we keep God's Law in a spiritual
and loving way instead of trying to keep the letter of  it  legalistically.
We  do  what  we  do  out of the fulness of our hearts full of Love for our
Saviour which fills us with love for our neighbor.  Does this make  us  the
judge of what is the 'spirit' of the law - the Christ filled keeping of the
law?  No, not at all.  Sinful man is always eager to find new  ways  to  do
his own thing.  Don't trust your own reasoning on how to keep the law spir-
itually, the 'spirit' of the law.  Read carefully the  example  that  Jesus
provided  for  us.   This  is one key reason why He came to this earth.  He
showed us how to keep the law in spirit and in truth.  Come to  a  thorough
understanding  of  His  example in order to understand what is meant by the
spirit of the law, the spirit filled, Christ filled keeping  of  God's  Ten
Commandments.   He  provided  testimony and example on all ten commandments
and made it clear that He had not come to do away with  any  of  them.   If
there  was no need of His example He could have simply come to die.  But He
came as a baby, as a boy, as a teenager, as a man.  He was  in  all  points
tempted  as  we are and He kept God's law as we should keep it.  Keep God's
law and not a new Mishna of man's devising.  Keep it out of  a  new  Christ
filled  heart  and  not  out of any attempt to prove anything before God or
man.

Do not counterfeit my ten dollar bill.  Both sides  must  be  authentic  or
don't try to give me one of them.

I will happily provide supporting texts at your request.

   \\/////
 
   8-) (-8      Dave (David E. Buxton)
      |
     .-.        davidbu@tekigm2.MEN.TEK.COM

    .   .       Smile!  Its a beutiful day!
     \_/ 

mrh@drutx.att.com (Mike Hudson) (10/19/89)

I enjoyed your $10 Bill discussion:

In other words

"...faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
New Testament - James 2:17

"...it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."
Book of Mormon - 2 Nephi 25:23

Cheers
Mike Hudson
...att!drutx!mrh

davidbu@tekigm2.men.tek.com (David Buxton) (10/22/89)

In article <Oct.18.17.51.15.1989.3001@athos.rutgers.edu>, 
mrh@drutx.att.com (Mike Hudson) writes:
> "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." James 2:17
> "...it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."
> Book of Mormon - 2 Nephi 25:23

I certainly do subscribe to your James 2:17 text in the sense of Christ
doing those works through me.  The works must be revealed but it is not
my works but rather the works of my Jesus.

Sorry Mike, but I simply cannot subscribe to your Nephi quotation.  In
my $10 Bill analogy I wish to be clear that SIDE_A must come first.  Without
SIDE_A there can be no SIDE_B.  The full Gospel, IMHO, must deal with
both sides of the $10 Bill, else we have a counterfeit.  Let me re-state
my oppening summary.

-----

Two of my neighbors each ask a different question.   Each  of  these  ques-
tions has a different answer:

    QUESTION_A: One neighbor asks "What must I do to be saved?"

      ANSWER_A: Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

    QUESTION_B: I Love Him, what would God have me to do?

      ANSWER_B: Jesus said - "If you love me keep my commandments."
                The Gospel Commission.

Until my first neighbor becomes a 'Born Again' Christian and  is  sincerely
asking  Question_B  the second answer will mean little to him/her.

We hand out a counterfeit if we offer the same answer  to  both  questions:
Legalism  is offering ANSWER_B for both questions.  It is also a fraud when
we insist that "Just Believe" is the answer to both questions.

-----

You are proposing one of the many variations by which people offer the same
answer to both questions.  You propose that the 'Born Again' experience
must come out of Faith and Works.  No, emphatically NO!!  The works flow
out of the 'Born Again' experience.  Any other works flow from the human
heart and are perverted by human selfishness.  We keep His Commandments
because we love Him; out of a heart filled with Love for Him and for
the humans that He created.

Until God's Love and God's Law become an inseparable unity we know not
what love is or law is in the true spiritual sense.  They must be welded
together in our hearts; and only Jesus can do that.   Step #1 is the
Born Again experience - we come to Him just as we are.  There is no other
way by which we can be saved.

Friend,

Dave