palosaari@tiger.oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) (10/16/89)
If this question has been asked already, I
apologize, but if that's so, I'm sure the moderator won't send it through
the net.
If we are susposed to worship on Saturday (Sabbath) and not Sunday, how
do we know that the day we now see as the Sabbath is the same day as the
early Christians saw as the Sabbath? In other words, could it be possible
that we messed up the calender not only in respect to years and months, but
also as concerns days of the week, so that someone worshipping on Saturday
might now be actually worshipping on Thursday? (I'm genuinely curious.)
[I would be fairly confident that we haven't dropped a day between now
and the 1st Cent, but I have no idea how to check it for thousands of
years previously. There are several reasons to be confident that our
Saturday is the same as the early Church's. One is that Christians
and Jews each keep track of the days, and I've never heard any
suggestion that they got out of sync. Nor have I heard of, for
example, European and Egyptian Jews disagreeing about the Sabbath.
--clh]cik@l.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) (10/19/89)
[In article <Oct.15.23.56.55.1989.13362@athos.rutgers.edu>, palosaari@tiger.oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) asks whether a day could have slipped in the 7-day cycle, so that our Saturday isn't the same as the ancient one. --clh] The week, including the naming of the days, goes back to the ancient Babylonians, at least. Our 7-day cycle is unchanged since before the birth of Abraham. -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907 Phone: (317)494-6054 hrubin@l.cc.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet, UUCP)
devries@ncar.ucar.edu (DEVRIES KEVIN K) (10/19/89)
Does it really matter what day we worship on? Just as long as a day (or a part of every day) is set aside to worship the Lord. As you set out, remeber to put on the armour of God. Bullwinkle
svalcour@dartvax.uucp (Scott Valcourt ) (10/19/89)
In article <Oct.15.23.56.55.1989.13362@athos.rutgers.edu>, palosaari@tiger.oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) writes: > If we are susposed to worship on Saturday (Sabbath) and not Sunday, how > do we know that the day we now see as the Sabbath is the same day as the > early Christians saw as the Sabbath? In other words, could it be possible > that we messed up the calender not only in respect to years and months, but > also as concerns days of the week, so that someone worshipping on Saturday > might now be actually worshipping on Thursday? (I'm genuinely curious.) > This question brought up another question: According to the Catholic Church, a vigil mass may be celebrated on the Saturday before the Sunday mass, while the Sunday mass is the one that is celebrated on the "Day that the Lord has made." On special days, like Easter, for instance, Easter Vigil may not be celebrated until sunset on the Saturday before. I understand that this caused a bit of controversy when the Daylight Savings Time was changed and gave us more light in the evening before the mass. This caused many masses to be scheduled later (after sunset). My question is: if this "sunset" problem is such a problem, why does the Catholic Church allow for Sunday evening masses, after sunset, which "count" (if that's what people use it for) for fulfilling Sunday obligation? I refuse to attend Sunday night mass strictly on this basis. Any "light" to shed? -Scott Valcourt UUCP: ..!dartvax!anselm!svalcour Saint Anselm College <<--- "I should know going to a Catholic, Manchester, NH 03102 Liberal Arts College in the Bendictine Tradition!"
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) (10/23/89)
In article <Oct.18.17.51.51.1989.3051@athos.rutgers.edu> anselm!svalcour@dartvax.uucp (Scott Valcourt ) writes: >According to the Catholic >Church, a vigil mass may be celebrated on the Saturday before the Sunday >mass, while the Sunday mass is the one that is celebrated on the "Day >that the Lord has made." On special days, like Easter, for instance, >Easter Vigil may not be celebrated until sunset on the Saturday before. >I understand that this caused a bit of controversy when the Daylight >Savings Time was changed and gave us more light in the evening before >the mass. This caused many masses to be scheduled later (after sunset). >My question is: if this "sunset" problem is such a problem, why does >the Catholic Church allow for Sunday evening masses, after sunset, which >"count" (if that's what people use it for) for fulfilling Sunday >obligation? I refuse to attend Sunday night mass strictly on this >basis. Any "light" to shed? "Sunset" isn't a problem in general. The word "vigil" carries the meaning of staying awake the night before a feast, and the Easter Vigil rite practically requires darkness. Holding up the Paschal candal and announcing "Lumen Christi" with the afternoon sun streaming through the stained glass somehow doesn't cut it. Frankly, I find it an abomination to have an Easter Vigil service which starts before 11PM or so, the customary practice before this "Sunday vigil" stuff confused matters. Ditto on the demise of the Christmas "Midnight Mass" which now seems to be scheduled for the moment the malls close on Christmas Eve. Humbug. The Catholic Church considers your Sunday obligation fulfilled if you attend Mass anytime on Sunday or at a Saturday vigil. You are free to attend Mass at the time you prefer, of course, but a Mass on Sunday evening is perfectly OK in the eyes of the Church, and there isn't any contradiction in the practice that I can see. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer dyer@arktouros.mit.edu, dyer@hstbme.mit.edu
frgreen@cdin-1.uu.net (10/23/89)
In reply to Scott: The Catholic Church began the practice of Vigil Masses after Vatican II with the "day" being celebrated from sundown to sundown as in the Jewish tradition. You are liturgically correct in stating it should be from Saturday evening thru Sunday "before sunset." However due to those human conditions of "legal" interpretation, they read church (Canon) law and find: "the precept....is satisfied....on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day" (Cn1248). frgreen