smith_c@ncsatl.uucp (Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter) (10/25/89)
Somewhat in keeping with the conversation on Salation, I have a question for
you: Who can be saved? Can anyone who embraces Christ be saved? Before you
say, "yes," let me caution you: You may not realize what you're getting into.
If this is inappropriate for the newsgroup, I ask the Moderator or whomever
please to let me know. Recently, I posted a dialogue, which I had written,
featuring various members of the crew of the Starship Enterprise in the
television series Star Trek: The Next Generation. In it, the crewmembers
discuss the nature of salvation for nonhuman races. Assuming that there are
nonhuman intelligent beings out there in the universe, did Christ die for them
also, or only for human beings? I maintain in my dialogue that Christ died for
all people, of whatever race, throughout the universe. Some believe that
Christ has to be born again on different worlds; I don't subscribe to this
viewpoint: One birth, one life, one death, one resurrection, forever and ever
amen. Even an android (Commander Data) questions his own salvation in terms of
Christian belief. If one has the presence of mind to ask if one can be saved,
I believe God can find it in his heart and his mind to answer the question,
probably in the affirmative. Debates on whether or not androids can become
self-aware aside: Can anyone with the presence of mind to ask to receive
Christ Jesus do so?
If you'd like, I'll be happy to post here a copy of the complete dialogue; in
rec.arts.startrek, the dialogues were scattered throughout different postings.
It's a questions that interests me personally and deeply. I hope some people
out there share my enthusiasm for this topic. Baptism by desire for nonhumans?
I await your responses.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
\ \ \ \ SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER | "Repent, Klingon heathen!" |
\ \ \ \ | - born again Trekkie |
(_) \ \ \_) Spirit comes, Spirit goes. | |
\ \ Whence it comes, no-one knows.| gatech.edu!smith_c%ncsatl |
(__) \_) -Petra, "Voice in the Wind"| gatech!nanovx!ncsatl!smith_c |
__________________________________________|______________________________|
[I have a hard time answering that until we have met at least one and
preferably several non-human intelligent species. On strictly
Biblical ground I think one could argue for the idea that Christ
appears separately to each species, that ours is the only one and we
are supposed to preach to all other species, or that there are no
other intelligent species. This is the sort of thing that seems to be
hard to settle a priori. Since the world tends to be stranger than we
can imagine, the true situation may be none of the above. Not that I
object to speculation, of course. ... --clh]credmond@watmath.waterloo.edu (Chris Redmond) (10/27/89)
[In article <Oct.25.05.02.10.1989.24852@athos.rutgers.edu> smith_c@ncsatl.uucp (Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter) asked whether Christ died for non-human intellegent species. I commented that I could imagine a number of arrangements, and it would be hard to know which God had chosen until we have met a few such species. --clh] Surely a member of any species only needs salvation if sin has occurred -- in traditional theological terms, if a "fall" has separated that species from God to begin with. Do we have any reason to believe that Intelligent Species X, when we meet it on Alpha Centauri, will be in a fallen condition? Seems to me this is one of the issues C. S. Lewis deals with in his theological science fiction. CAR credmond@watmath
hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) (10/27/89)
[In article <Oct.25.05.02.10.1989.24852@athos.rutgers.edu> smith_c@ncsatl.uucp (Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter) asked about salvation of non-human intelligent races. --clh] In the spirit of sharing beliefs I will quote 2 passages from LDS (Mormon) scripture: "Worlds without number have I created ... by the Son created I them which is mine Only Begotten." (Moses 1:32, Pearl of Great Price) "By [Jesus] and through him and of him the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God" (Doctrine and Covenants 76:24) To me this indicates that the Father has created numberless worlds, all made by the power of the Son. While it doesn't specifically say that all are inhabited, any inhabitants which there are need the power of the Son to be saved. It also doesn't say how this is done. Indeed the Moses passage goes on to say the the Lord was not going to give any details about any world except this one. I suppose we have enough to worry about here. >If you'd like, I'll be happy to post here a copy of the complete dialogue; in >rec.arts.startrek, the dialogues were scattered throughout different postings. If you don't post it, please e-mail me a copy. Hal Lillywhite "When a man demands proof, you can be sure hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM that proof is the last thing he really wants." Hugh Nibley
devries@ncar.ucar.edu (DEVRIES KEVIN K) (10/27/89)
As to who is saved, there is a passage that states something to the effect of 'other sheep will hear my voice'. I always thought that it is a possiblility that Christ meant that other beings not of this world would hear his voice. However, some people believe he ment other European people's or the Native Americans. Another point to ponder: If the people of the world are not praising the Lord, the rocks themselves do so (Passage from somewhere in Psalms). Bullwinkle
jeffjs@ihlpb.att.com (Jeffrey Jay Sargent) (10/30/89)
C.S. Lewis deals with the question of salvation for extraterrestrial species in his essay "Religion and Rocketry", printed in his _The World's Last Night_ collection. He argues several points about it, notably that with the human race in its fallen state, it would be (in one of several ways) nothing but a disaster if we met another race, especially an unfallen one; but he ends up by quoting some Christian sage of old (I forget who) who asked whether supposed earthly non-human species such as satyrs would be saved, and answered his own question by saying that we could wait on that till we knew that there in fact were any such creatures. Lewis says the same is true of the question of the salvation of extraterrestrials. -- -- Jeff Sargent att!ihlpb!jeffjs (UUCP), jeffjs@ihlpb.att.com (Internet) AT&T Bell Laboratories, IH 5A-433, Naperville, IL (312) 979-5284 "A bad company corrupts good character."
dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) (11/10/89)
There is an excellent and thought-provoking novel by James Blish, which I believe is called _A Case of Conscience_, in which this problem (i.e. the salvation status of nonhuman intelligent life) is considered in depth. The protagonist of the novel is a priest (RC, I believe). Among other issues that crop up are: (1) What if we were to run into an "unfallen" race? (2) Do other fallen races achieve salvation in the same way that we do? (3) Are the paths (if plural) to salvation mutually exclusive? I think that this is an interesting Thought Experiment, even if there are no other intelligent races. It casts great illumination on one's own relation- ship with God to consider what others are possible. (See also, _Perelandra_ by C.S.Lewis, and especially the "People" stories of Zenna Henderson...) "The Thinker" (He *looks* smart, but what does he *do*)?