barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) (11/10/89)
Concerning Joseph Smith on his revelation to the indians. Not a flame but something i have prayed about and pondered, for what it's worth. The American Indian always gets the shaft from the white man right? Now, why would God in all His wisdom meed a white man to come along for Him to reveal His revelation to the Indians. Are the indians that tainted that God cannot show or lead one of their own to find some buried plates, btw, buried by another indian at God's command, to reveal their own history? The Indians i can safely say in all sincerity would pray to the Great Spirit for wisdom, understanding, blessing, etc. Yet, in all their sincerity, God would not use them to discover these alleged plates. In fact for God to have to wait for a white man, would seem another slap in the face to the Indians from a white God? And surely there had to be more holy indians around than Joseph would have been. Or more Holy white men for that matter. Now the Gospel and the OT came to us through no white man, but through the Jews whom God chose to make Himself known to all the world. These are certainly honest questions that have bothered me for quite a while now. barry olson
schriste@uceng.uc.edu (Steven V. Christensen) (11/14/89)
barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) writes: >Concerning Joseph Smith on his revelation to the indians. >Now, why would God in all His wisdom meed a white man to come along >for Him to reveal His revelation to the Indians. Are the indians that >tainted that God cannot show or lead one of their own to find some >buried plates, btw, buried by another indian at God's command, to >reveal their own history? As I understand it, the indians, who were descendants of a group of people who left Jerusalem 600BC, had fallen into wickedness and iniquity, and had lost the knowledge of the truth. So in a way, due to their (parents') deeds, they had lost the privelage of the true knowledge of God. >barry olson (maybe) not official Church doctrine, just my opinions. Steven -- Steven V. Christensen U.C. College of Eng. schriste@uceng.uc.edu
hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) (11/14/89)
In article <Nov.10.02.58.45.1989.12522@athos.rutgers.edu> barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) writes: >Concerning Joseph Smith on his revelation to the indians. Not a flame >but something i have prayed about and pondered, for what it's worth. (I assume you're refering to the Book of Mormon which is written not only to Native Americans but "also to the Jew and Gentile." (Title page).) >The American Indian always gets the shaft from the white man right? > >Now, why would God in all His wisdom meed a white man to come along >for Him to reveal His revelation to the Indians. Are the indians that >tainted that God cannot show or lead one of their own to find some >buried plates, btw, buried by another indian at God's command, to >reveal their own history? I'm not surprized that one who is just starting to learn of these things would not know this although from my background the answer is pretty straightforward. It has to do with the 12 Tribes of Israel and the restoration thereof: 1. The Book of Mormon writers (and therefore the Native Americans) are descendents primarily of Manasseh, one of the sons of Joseph who was sold into Egypt (See B of M, Alma10:3) 2. One purpose of the Book of Mormon is to aid in the restoration of the House of Israel. 3. Israel was split by the actions of the tribe of Ephraim which ruled over the northern kingdom and lead them into such wickedness that they were taken away captive and lost. 4. We believe that in a sort of poetic justice, Ephraim must also provide the primary force for the gathering of Israel. The tribe of Manasseh will also play an important part in this. (cf Deut 33:17, Doctrine and Covenants 58:44-45). 5. Joseph Smith is believed to be primarily a descendent of Ephraim. In the Book of Mormon we have a book written by Manasseh and then brought forth by Ephraim. It will eventually aid in the restoration of Israel as described in chapter 37 of Ezekial.
wcsa@iwtdr.att.com (Willard C Smith) (11/15/89)
[In article <Nov.10.02.58.45.1989.12522@athos.rutgers.edu>,
barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) asked why a white man (Joseph
Smith) was needed in order to bring to light God's revelation to
the Indians? Were the Indians somehow "tainted"? --clh]
Well Barry, I frankly do not believe that God, in all His wisdom, decided
to reveal the BoM to Joseph Smith because the Indians were "tainted," etc.
In fact, I've given a great deal of thought over how I should respond
since some of the phrases you selected to pose the question are mighty
close to baiting (Let's keep the firefights in talk.religion.misc where
they belong, OK?).
The correct answer is "We don't know why, since we are not privy to
God's mind." But in the spirit of speculation may I provide two possible
answers:
1 - The "Time of the Gentiles" response used by many Mormons during the
Nineteenth century and more than reasonably summed up in 1 Nephi 13:42.
2 - The "Seed of Joseph of Egypt" response which is used quite frequently
today. This response is also reasonable summed up in 2 Nephi 3:6-21.
Since you have apparently given this much thought and consideration, you
shouldn't mind actually aquiring a _Book of Mormon_ and looking up the
stated references. I wouldn't want you to lose any sleep. :-)
--
1100 E. Warrenville Rd., Naperville, IL
Willard C. Smith (708) 979-0024
att!iwtdr!wcsa
"It's life, Captain, but not as we know it."