mls@dasys1.UUCP (Michael Siemon) (11/10/89)
May I point out, in expansion of Steve Dyer's note that the Catholic obligation to attend mass is satisfied by vigil services on Saturday evening as well as by Sunday mass, that the matter derives ultimately from Jewish reckoning of days. That is, the Jewish (and Muslim, for that matter) day BEGINS at sundown (or for Muslims at dusk after sundown.) Check on orthodox Jewish observance of the sabbath, if there is a population of that faith near you. Both for the Christmas "midnight" mass and for the Great Vigil of Easter, the Church has preserved Jewish tradition in the very structure of our most solemn observances, and there are traces of this kind of reckoning elsewhere. If I can be polemical for just a moment, this indebtedness of the basic Church calendar to its Jewish origins is sufficient rebuttal to charges that our feasts are "pagan." -- Michael L. Siemon I cannot grow; ...!cucard!dasys1!mls I have no shadow To run away from, I only play.
ejh@sei.cmu.edu (11/14/89)
In article <Nov.10.02.27.26.1989.11387@athos.rutgers.edu> mls@dasys1.UUCP (Michael Siemon) writes: [concerning the basis in judaism of the beginning of the 'day' occurring at dusk of the previous 'day', with which i agree] >If I can be polemical for just a moment, this indebtedness of >the basic Church calendar to its Jewish origins is sufficient >rebuttal to charges that our feasts are "pagan." uh, i don't think so: you're talking about apples and oranges. all you did was show that there is a basis in judaism for celebrating the sabbath the night before. as i recall, the major holidays were chosen to closely coincide with the festivals of the pagans the church was trying to convert to christianity. thus, the winter solstice became christmas, samhain (sp?, right holiday?) became all hallow's eve (which, as you would be quick to point out, would be the beginning of all saint's day), and the vernal equinox became easter. why do you think easter is still based on the full moon? by definition, easter is 'the first sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox'. erik
firth@sei.cmu.edu (11/15/89)
In article <Nov.10.02.27.26.1989.11387@athos.rutgers.edu> mls@dasys1.UUCP (Michael Siemon) writes: >[concerning the basis in judaism of the beginning of the 'day' occurring at >dusk of the previous 'day', with which i agree] > In article <Nov.13.11.55.27.1989.4965@athos.rutgers.edu> ejh@sei.cmu.edu writes: >uh, i don't think so: you're talking about apples and oranges. all you did >was show that there is a basis in judaism for celebrating the sabbath the >night before. Before this thread goes too far, let me just say that the original claim is flat wrong. In the Anglican Catholic church, the liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight. In particular, the mass of a particular day must, in almost all circumstances, be said after midnight, even if the service as a whole begins on the eve. This is true, for instance, of the Easter and Christmas masses; the current practice in some churches of holding the Easter vigil at dusk, AND celebrating the mass during it, is not sanctioned. However, some days have what is called the privilege of first evensong, ie the evening service of the eve is considered to belong to the day. This is true of most Sundays and major feasts; for example evensong on the Saturday before Advent Sunday is the first service in Advent. But this does not apply at the other end of the day: Advent Sunday runs until midnight, not until sunset.
mls@attunix.att.com (Mike Siemon) (11/17/89)
In article <Nov.15.03.11.17.1989.11236@athos.rutgers.edu>, firth@sei.cmu.edu writes: > Before this thread goes too far, let me just say that the original > claim is flat wrong. In the Anglican Catholic church, the liturgical > day runs from midnight to midnight... > However, some days have what is called the privilege of first > evensong, ie the evening service of the eve is considered to > belong to the day. This is true of most Sundays and major feasts; I am perfectly willing to believe this to be a correct statement of canon law (I haven't checked, but will inquire.) However, my point is not a legal one, but historical. *Why* is this privelege given to Sundays and major feasts? My contention is that it's not simply an arbitary convention, nor some sort of odd concession to people's wanting to "rush" a feast (though it is notable that Mardi Gras is not dropped early to rush into Ash Wednesday :-)) but is a connection with Jewish practice -- as indeed are elements of the eucharistic service parallel to, and possibly taken from, synagogue practice. Recently, the Great Vigil sevice for Easter has become very popular, where earlier one found it mostly at cathedrals and (high-church) seminaries. Within the last few years, most of the seminarians at GTS in New York have commitments to Vigil services in the parishes they are associated with -- and GTS has been constrained to move up the time of its venerable Vigil to an indecently (to my taste :-)) early 8 p.m. -- Michael L. Siemon "I cannot grow; ...!cucard!dasys1!mls I have no shadow ...!att!sfbat!mls To run away from, standard disclaimer I only play"