smith_c@ncsatl.uucp (12/11/89)
I've been trying to get a copy of the Talmud with no success. Someone gave me the address of a bookstore in New York whom she thought might carry it, though I haven't mailed them a letter yet. Here in the Atlanta area, I've tried various Christian bookstores, misc bookstores, rare books bookstores, with no success. I even tried the Jewish Center downtown; they had no idea where I could find a copy of the Talmud. Perhaps I should simply try a synagogue? Typically, Christian churches don't sell Bibles, so I hadn't considered that possibility until just now. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Talmud? I have a copy of the Kabbalah, the Kohar, Jewish mystical writings. You wouldn't think it would be so difficult to get a hold of a Talmud, even a Palestinian Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud is probably much more expensive, but I'd still like to get a copy. I'm cross-posting to talk.religion.misc and soc.religion.christian. Thanks in advance for any help. Sincerely, gatech!ncsatl!smith_c
temple@mcnc.org (Dorota Temple) (12/15/89)
This is my response to your posting in soc.rel.christian. I thought
you might be interested in knowing that Christian Book Distributors
( a mail order bookstore) carry an English translation of Mishnah which,
if I understand correctly, is a part of Talmud. The catalogue number for
this is 5402X. They also have "Invitation to Talmud" by J. Neusner (Cat.#66112).According to the description in the catalogue, "rather than offering
another book about Talmud, Neusner introduces the work itself".
In case you are interested here is the address:
Christian Book Distributors
P.O.Box 3687
Peabody, MA 01961-3687
Tel.508-532-5300 (8 a.m. - 9 p.m. EST weekdays)
Good luck!
Dorota Templemls@cbnewsm.att.com (12/17/89)
In article <Dec.15.02.06.44.1989.17827@athos.rutgers.edu>, temple@mcnc.org (Dorota Temple) writes: re: the Jacob Neusner translation of the Mishnah > which, if I understand correctly, is a part of Talmud. Actually, the Mishnah is the basic "code" or "kernel" of Jewish oral law. It was promulgated by a circle of rabbis in Galilee in the 2nd century C.E. The Talmud is essentially an exegesis and commentary on the Mishnah, and there are two Talmuds, the Palestinian (or Yerushalemi) and the slightly later (and substantially larger) Babylonian Talmud. These grew up in the 20 years or so following the promulgation of the Mishnah. The Mishnah is quite elliptical and often very cryptic and condensed; it would not be a good idea for a Christian to read it without substantial aid from Jewish sources. Neusner has a number of books that are a good introduction to this literature. In particular, his book _Midrash in Context_ deals with the relations between Mishnah and Talmud and uses that as an analogue for the still later development of Jewish scriptural exegesis in the age after the Talmud was produced. Neuesner is a respected scholar and a prolific writer. I doubt that Orthodox Jews think highly of him, but I would recommend his works as a sympathetic and easy entry into the world of Jewish religious thought. -- Michael L. Siemon In so far as people think they can see the cucard!dasys1!mls "limits of human understanding", they think att!sfbat!mls of course that they can see beyond these. standard disclaimer -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
mls@cbnewsm.att.com (12/19/89)
This is not really critical to anything I said, but a digit dropped out in one place -- the Talmudic commentaries grew up in the 200+ years after the Mishnah; they were completed by about 500 C.E. at the latest. Note: there is an excellent sketch of what the Talmud means to Judaism in the current Book Review section of the New York Times Sunday edition. This is a review of the current lavish project of the Steinzalz Talmud. As the reviewer points out, the "canonical" Vilna Talmud contains on its pages many centuries of still further commentary by the rabbis, in fine print around the text of the Talmud _per se_. Judging from this first volume (you can probably find it at Waldenbooks or Daltons) the whole of this Talmud will take up something over a hundred feet of shelf space. -- Michael L. Siemon We must know the truth, and we must ...!cucard!dasys1!mls love the truth we know, and we must ...!att!sfbat!mls act according to the measure of our love. standard disclaimer -- Thomas Merton
jelkind@garnet.berkeley.edu (The Unexpected Tiger) (12/19/89)
First, I'd like to respond to the original poster. From the article itself, it was pretty clear that the author only has a minimal knowledge of the Talmud and probably none at all of Hebrew or Aramaic. I say this because of the poster's strange remarks about the Palestinian vs. Babylonian Talmud. Before getting any actual copy of the Talmud, I *strongly* recommend that you read "The Essential Talmud" by Adin Steinsaltz. If I'm wrong, I'd recommend that you ask the people at the "Yeshivah High School", Atlanta's Jewish parochial school, who might be able to help you. The only complete translation that I know of is the Soncino, which is mediocre at best. Steinsaltz has started his own, but I don't know anything about its quality. You can get a good quality (if not folio-sized) talmud in the original for about $150. I'd also like to followup to some of the things that Mike Siemon said in a recent article. >Actually, the Mishnah is the basic "code" or "kernel" of Jewish oral law. >It was promulgated by a circle of rabbis in Galilee in the 2nd century C.E. >The Talmud is essentially an exegesis and commentary on the Mishnah, and >there are two Talmuds, the Palestinian (or Yerushalemi) and the slightly >later (and substantially larger) Babylonian Talmud. These grew up in the >20 years or so [sic] following the promulgation of the Mishnah. The Mishnah was completed early in the third century C.E. The material itself goes back as far as the first century B.C.E., with some even earlier stuff. But the discussions in the academies did not stop there. The discussions of the Palestinian academies were put down in writing around 400 C.E., and form the "Palestinian" (Yerushalmi) Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud was redacted about 200 years later. Because it is later and much more carefully edited, the Babylonian Talmud is considered to be more authoritative in matters of Jewish jurisprudence. >The Mishnah is quite elliptical and often very cryptic and condensed; it >would not be a good idea for a Christian to read it without substantial >aid from Jewish sources. I agree totally with this. Mishnah is difficult to study out of context, and Talmud is even harder. It's not like a history book or the Bible that you can just pick up and read. It's meant to be studied in a certain kind of way that, frankly, only works when you do it in the original. I say this as someone who has in fact tried it both ways. >[recommendations of books by Jacob Neusner]. . . Neusner is a respected >scholar and a prolific writer. I doubt that Orthodox Jews think highly of >him, but I would recommend his works as a sympathetic and easy entry into >the world of Jewish religious thought. Although I am an "Orthodox" Jew, the reason that I do not think highly of his work is not that he is not Orthodox. The reason that I do not think highly of his work is that his scholarship is LOUSY. (Sorry Mike; I would not normally disagree with your postings because they are usually in areas where you are much more expert than I am, but I suspect that this may not be one of those.) I'm not the only one who thinks his scholarship is lousy. At one scholaraly conference, his own ex-adviser was passing out material criticizing his scholarship! He tends to miss the point of a lot of what he writes about. I have seen one text of his (intended for junior high school students) called "Learn Mishnah". I remember one Mishnah he teaches, one that I happen to have learned in Bava Metsiah. He explains the Mishnah in the exact opposite fashion that the Gemara does! In short, I would be very suspicious of *any* work by Neusner. Take my advice: go with the Steinsaltz, and if you really want to learn the material, learn Hebrew. Richard Schultz
tom@dvnspc1.Dev.Unisys.COM (Tom Albrecht) (12/19/89)
In article <Dec.17.02.14.11.1989.15441@athos.rutgers.edu>, mls@cbnewsm.att.com writes: > > The Mishnah is quite elliptical and often very cryptic and condensed; it > would not be a good idea for a Christian to read it without substantial > aid from Jewish sources. Neusner has a number of books that are a good > introduction to this literature. In particular, his book _Midrash in There is a good overview of the Talmud called _Everyman's Talmud_ by ? Cohen. It takes a systematic approach to the Talmud. -- Tom Albrecht