brandy@mimsy.umd.edu (Brandy R. Provine) (01/01/90)
In the midst of a free will discussion, Dave Mielke writes some pointless insults for any who disagree with him, and he also writes this: > >Regardless of all the various self-gratifying concepts that people invent, >I, for one, refuse to believe anything unless God Himself has declared it >to be true within the Scriptures. Many people believe that headaches can cause short-tempered behaviour, and also that taking an aspirin will relieve that condition, enabling more harmony with those around us. (This is not a claim that _no_ antisocial behavior is due to sin, but only that _some_ interpersonal friction is aggravated by headaches, and that relieving the headache will prevent some nastiness.) Neither of these rather common beliefs, however, has support from the Bible. Do you claim that these beliefs are `self-gratifying concepts'? Since you have declared that you refuse to believe anything which is not declared in the Scriptures, do you deny that headaches can affect one's behaviour? Do you oppose taking of aspirin for headaches? Or do you have Bible verses which support these ideas? If you do oppose taking of aspirin in general, are you against it even if it causes people to get along better by helping relieve headaches? And doesn't it seem strange to you that you are directly opposed to an action which can prevent needless hostilities? (I recognise that Dave didn't mean his comment literally, and was merely being inaccurate, because he believes many things which are not in the Bible (he apparently believes that the terminal he works on is hooked to a computer, eg). This particular example, however, is one wherein the standard solution helps prevent sinful behaviour and is not in the Bible.) brandy@cs.umd.edu Brandy R. Provine ...uunet!mimsy!brandy "Anyone can be simple if he has no facts to bother about." -- CS Lewis
davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) (01/04/90)
In article <Jan.1.10.41.56.1990.11578@athos.rutgers.edu> brandy@mimsy.umd.edu (Brandy R. Provine) refutes my earlier statement that: >>I, for one, refuse to believe anything unless God Himself has declared it >>to be true within the Scriptures. She does this by outlining the three following examples: >Many people believe that headaches can cause short-tempered behaviour, and >also that taking an aspirin will relieve that condition, enabling more >harmony with those around us. She continues by outlining one final scenario which she feels really helps make her point beyond any shadow of a doubt: >(I recognise that Dave didn't mean his comment literally, and was merely > being inaccurate, because he believes many things which are not in the > Bible (he apparently believes that the terminal he works on is hooked to > a computer, eg). I was not being anything less than accurate in my claim. There is a profound difference between the way you are using the word "believe" and the way I am using it. I do believe that there is an extremely high degree of probability that all of the things you mentioned are true. I do not, however, hold to those beliefs with a full 100% commitment. There is a minority of people whose nature does not suffer even when they become afflicted with a headache. There is a minority of people to whom aspirin is either ineffective or lethal. There is a minority of people whose natures do not improve when their headaches are alleviated. Your last example, which seems to have a higher degree of certainty, is still nothing worth basing my eternal future on. It is entirely possible that, at the instant that I fervently declare that this computer terminal is connected to a computer, someone will put a shovel through the telephone cable that fascilitates that connection. While I merely believe with a high degree of certainty that all of those things you have mentioned are true, I know with 100% assurence that each and every detail declared within the Scriptures is true. This is because their author is the one and only infinitely perfect God of this universe who does each and every thing according to His will and to the praise of His glory. Dave Mielke, 613-726-0014 856 Grenon Avenue Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K2B 6G3