lohr@wsqtb8.crd.ge.com (01/16/90)
Spiritual gifts not meant for today??
I don't mean to stir up controversy with this - I'm more just looking for
information. This may even be an old thread which has been covered
fairly thoroughly.
There's is a teaching which I have heard several times (more or less
second hand) which states that the spiritual gifts are "not meant for today".
That is, they were meant for the early church to build it up initially,
but are not given today and at best inappropriate. This applies in particular
to the more "miraculous" gifts such as tounges, prophesy, healing and word of
knowledge. I think some go as far as to teach that the manifestation of
these gifts today is satanic in origin.
I believe one pivital scripture reference used to verify this is in
1Cor 13, where it states, that when the perfect comes the imperfect (refering
to the imperfect or incomplete manfestation of the gifts) will pass away,
where "the perfect" is taken to be the completed New Testament rather than
the coming of Christ.
Do I have this right? Can anyone summerize both pro and con (without too
much bias ;-)? Are there denominations or well-known teachers who in
particular adhere to this belief? Is this an age-old controversy within the
body, or something which is very recent? Does the range on the con side
truly go from "inappropriate" to "satanic in origin"?
Phil Lohr
lohr@crd.ge.com
uunet!crd.ge.com!lohrhall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) (01/18/90)
In article <Jan.16.04.51.58.1990.16174@athos.rutgers.edu> lohr@wsqtb8.crd.ge.com writes: > >Spiritual gifts not meant for today?? > > I don't mean to stir up controversy with this - I'm more just looking for >information. This may even be an old thread which has been covered >fairly thoroughly. > > There's is a teaching which I have heard several times (more or less >second hand) which states that the spiritual gifts are "not meant for today". >That is, they were meant for the early church to build it up initially, >but are not given today and at best inappropriate. This applies in particular >to the more "miraculous" gifts such as tounges, prophesy, healing and word of >knowledge. I think some go as far as to teach that the manifestation of >these gifts today is satanic in origin. The Christian world includes a variety of beliefs on this subject. I believe the Pentacostals generally place a lot of emphasis on things like speaking in tongues etc. and of course there are widely publicized peope like Oral Roberts. When I was in South America some of the Catholics there were very convinced that many of their saints had performed miracles. My own church (LDS or Mormon) believes strongly in such things but avoids the "spectacular" aspect, seeing them more as aids to the believers. At the other extreme, early in our church history we were persecuted mainly because of this belief, the "constitution of the mob" in Missouri even specifically uses this belief to justify their actions - we had to be driven out because we believed in modern day spiritual gifts. These people indeed appear to have believed that the gifts must have been satanic in origin. > I believe one pivital scripture reference used to verify this is in >1Cor 13, where it states, that when the perfect comes the imperfect (refering >to the imperfect or incomplete manfestation of the gifts) will pass away, >where "the perfect" is taken to be the completed New Testament rather than >the coming of Christ. I too have heard people claim that 1 Cor 13:8-12 predict the end of spiritual gifts. I think it does but the timing is wrong for what these people claim. We know in part, prophesy in part etc. today just as in Paul's time. We still see through a glass darkly - we do not see [the Lord] face to face. When we know even as we are known (I think this means know God as he knows us) then there will be no need for these gifts. [I shall now wander somewhat from the original topic but I believe the "detour" will in fact take us to the real "highway of Christianity"] I think the real message of 1 Cor 13 becomes clearer in verse 13, namely that there are many gifts of the spirit but that the greatest is Charity. In fact I see 1 Cor 12-14 as a long chiasmus. Chapter 12 talks about gifts of the spirit, prophecy, healing etc. Chapter 13 is about charity, and chapter 14 again about the various gifts. For those unfamiliar with chiasmus (sp?) the term comes from the Greek letter Chi, equivalent to our letter X (of course scholars can't be simple minded enough to stick to the modern alphabet). It refers to a form of (mostly ancient) poetry in which the elements of the first half are repeated in reverse order in the second half of the poem. A simple example would be: Old King Cole was a Merry old soul And a Merry old soul was he Notice that if you draw a line from Old King Cole (line one) to "he" (line 2) and another connecting "merry old soul" on both lines, the lines cross like an X. In some cases (Old King Cole) there is nothing at the crossing. However in the case of 1 Cor 12-14, we find Paul's discussion of charity in the center of the 2 parts of the chiasmus. I understand that this was used to emphasize the central idea which is pointed to by both the beginning and the end. This is further emphasized by Paul's statement at the end of chapter 12 that we should seek the best gifts but he will show us a better way. Then in chapter 13 he shows us the better way - charity. I wish there were no chapter division there. Anyway, I think Paul's point is that all these spiritual gifts are good and necessary while we live on earth but that only faith, hope and especially charity are eternal.