[soc.religion.christian] the new covenant begins when?

davidbu@tekigm2.men.tek.com (David Buxton) (02/05/90)

Did a fairly in depth study of the Covenants a few weeks ago.  I
was reading a topical concordance endorced by Billy Graham and
happened to open to the section on Covenants.  To my surprise it
sited covenant after covenant, stating under conditions - NONE.
That is what prompted me to dig into my Bible and see what my
Bible had to say.   What I found was that these covenants, including
the New Covenant, all have their conditions.  One way of looking
at it is that all these covenants, including the New Covenant,
are really all the same Covenant.  The Covenant of a Messiah to
come had no conditions, that is about the only exception to the
rule that all the Covenants have their clearly stated conditions.
Of the conditions don't show up in the same verse or chapter but
they can be found easily enough.

My reading of the New Covenant is as follows - Down through the
OT ages we find a world in rebellion against God - Idolatry, sexual
perversions, etc etc.  And then there was . . . . . Each of these
patriarchs were the exception to the rule of their day.  They
were willing to do things God's way.  The children of Abraham
became the people of God.  God had a nation in those days.  It
was God's desire that they would be a witness to the world.  He
placed them at the cross roads of the world where He planned to
bless them so that the world would come to them to learn of their
success.  The story of the Love of God was to be their primary
'export'.  Take for example the early days of the reign of King
Solomon.  Instead of 'exporting' the ways of God to the nations
around them they instead imported the pagan idolatries of their
neighbors.  God had a people who promised to do things God's way
but they so often turned to the idolatry of the world around them.
One of the prominent idolatries were the various forms of sun
worship such as Baal, which involved the sacrifice of children.
In those days God was pretty much limited to His nation Israel;
no other people cared to have anything to do with God.  Guess
I should not make that to all encompassing - there were a few
in other nations who did turn to God - the Maggi of Jesus day
come to mind.

The New Covenant breaks away from the OT tradition of having only
one nation under God.  Rather the New Covenant is a covenant with
anyone and everyone who is willing to turn to God and to do things
God's way.  Under the New Covenant it matters not what creed,
race, nation, sex, color, or even the clothes that you wear.
If you are willing to let God place His laws withing your heart
for a truely spiritual Christ filled keeping of God's law then
you are a partaker of the OT covenant promises.  The OT blessings
were for Israel who promised to do God's will - some did but
most of them did not.  The New Covenant is for those exceptions
out of every walk of life who turn to God to do things God's
way.  The blessings are the same, the conditions are the same.
Its really all the same Covenant.  The difference is simply
that God no longer places the emphasis on a singular nation.  The
promised blessings are for anyone and everyone who honestly
turn to God and invite Jesus into their hearts and their lives.
The promised blessings are for anyone who chooses God and allows
God to work His wonders of transformation in their hearts.  These
are the true keepers of God's law - He does it in them, in their
hearts.

The New Covenant began when the gospel exploded out to the far
corners of the world.  God no longer has a singular people.
He has you and me and it matters not what is your color, creed,
dialect, . . . . . . . . . . .  Just turn to Him and do things
His way.

I'd be glad to email or post my outline notes on request.

Friend,

Dave

[The concept of convenant seems to imply that both sides have made
promises.  It seems to me that some of these "covenants" may simply be
things that God promised, not covenants in the usual sense.  But as
for "no conditions", perhaps we're getting into issues of what people
mean by terms.  Clearly the new convenant has obligations on our side,
to love and obedience.  There may be some distinction between
"conditions" and obligations assumed under the convenant.  --clh]

davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) (02/05/90)

In article <Jan.29.23.37.35.1990.14256@athos.rutgers.edu> mdg@ronin.UUCP (Mike Gallatin) writes:
>The thief on the cross is suppossed judged by a different dispensation
>then after Jesus' death. The spilling of Jesus blood is the begining
>of the New Convenant. 'It is finished' he says before giving up the
>ghost.
 
The thief on the cross, John the baptist, Isaiah, Moses, Noah, Enoch,
and Abel were all saved in the same manner as those of us are who live
after the crucifiction, i.e. faith in the one and only truly atoning
sacrifice of Jesus. This is possible because God considers Jesus to be
"the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8).
God did not have to wait until the actual sacrifice was made before He
could save those who lived before it because, as one who never lies and
always keeps every single one of His promises with impecable commitment
and accuracy, the sacrifice was as good as paid already as soon as He
said it would be.
 
Those of us who live after the crucifiction look back at the finished
work and place our trust in it. Those who lived before the crucifiction
placed their faith in God's promise that He would do something. The
whole ceremonial law was designed by God to give them insight into all
the various elements of His salvation plan. Both for us and for them
the only escape route from a certain arrival in hell is faith in the
work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
John 14:6 says "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.".
 
Acts 4:12 says "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is
none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be
saved.".
 
 
    Dave Mielke, 613-726-0014
    856 Grenon Avenue
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    K2B 6G3