[soc.religion.christian] problems with the Trinity

hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (03/18/90)

I promised a comment on the Trinity in the last group of messages, but
didn't have time to do it.  Here it is.

I both agree and disagree with folks who say "the Trinity is not
Biblical, so we shouldn't have it".  The Trinity was not invented
because people like philosophical elaboration.  It was invented
because people were saying things that seemed to many Christians like
serious abberations of the Christian faith.  In order to clarify the
issues, they had to be formulated more precisely.  That's basically
what doctrine is for.

In my view the groups that the Trinity was created to defend against
(primarily the Arians) were wrong, and it would have caused serious
damage had their view been adopted.  Given the way the questions were
being formulated at the time, I think the Trinity was the best
doctrine that could have been developed.  As you'll see in the
following message, I have some problems with it.  But if we are going
to replace it, we have to replace it with something that tries to do
justice to the same ideas.  Historically, most proposed replacements
of the Trinity turn out to be modern equivalents of the ancient
heresies.

Some people say we don't need to replace the Trinity with anything.
The Bible is enough.  We don't need to have doctrines like the
Trinity.  The problem with this is that we have to apply Biblical
ideas to current issues, and we have to decide whether certain
viewpoints are consistent with the Bible or not.  If we aren't willing
to draw any conclusions from the Bible, but simply repeat its words,
we have no way to deal with these challenges.

Now, for the problems I have with the Trinity:

In order to understand the Trinity, we have to understand the
questions it was answering.  Quite often in theology we find that the
way questions are asked is at least as important as the proposed
answers.  By the time of the Arian discussions, everyone had pretty
much agreed on the concept of the Son as a separate eternal entity,
usually using terminology based on the Logos.  So the theological
issues became:

  - is this entity fully equal to the Father, or is it a sort of
	demigod?  The Arians took the latter position.

  - how is the Logos incarnate?  This is the issue dealt with after
	Nicea, that culminated in Chalcedon.

I certainly support the orthodox position contra the Arians.  But I'm
not convinced that the whole framework they were operating within is
sensible.  My basic problem is that I think the Church had moved to a
neo-Platonic frame of reference.  And Greek philosophy in general had
trouble dealing with certain key concepts.  The Greeks were big on
substance and essense, etc.  If the incarnation was real, it had to be
expressed in this model of substances and essenses.  Greek philosophy
did not do very well with functions and relationships (even in
mathematics).  I believe that the unity between Jesus and his Father
was functional.  One of the Eastern theologians did in fact toy with
such a concept.  His view was considered acceptable at the time of
Chalcedon, though after his death he was rule to be heretical because
some of his followers got caught on the wrong side of the politics of
the Eastern church.  To me the main Biblical points that need to be
emphasized are:

  - that when we look at Jesus, we see God
  - that God was crucified, i.e. that the incarnation means that
	God chose to experience Jesus' life as his own.

To me this is not a matter of metaphysics, but of God's choice.
Frankly I think we would have been better to start with Hebrew
concepts rather than Greek.  The OT tradition has a number of
relationships of functional unity.  The best known is the prophet.
The prophet speaks for God.  He represents God in a much closer
fashion than many modern readers realize.  The prophets created so
much opposition not just because they were the messengers of bad news,
but because their proclamations and their symbolic actions were
thought to actually cause the things they proclaimed.  But there are
other instances of identification.  Servants represented their masters
and sons their fathers in a very direct way.  

To me it would be best to think of the incarnation as an
intensification of these Hebrew ideas.  Jesus was God present with us,
not because there was some metaphysical difference between him and any
other human, but because God chose to identify Himself with Jesus.
And also because God arranged it so that Jesus' character and life
revealed Him.  One problem I have with classicial theology is that it
leads us away from Jesus' life to his metaphysical constitution.

In fact I think something very interesting did come out of Trinitarian
theology, and I would like to see any modern equivalent preserve it.
This is the idea that God is not just a mathematical point, but that
he has some analog of human relationship within him.  This shows in
two ways:

  - we say that God is love.  We believe that love is intrinsic to
	him.  It didn't have to wait until there was a world and
	humans to love.  But love is a relationship.  How can there
	be a relationship within God?  The Trinity says that God
	has enough "inner structure" that there can be a relationship
	among him.

  - people are called to a life of loving obedience.  We are incapable
	of doing this alone.  It can only come as a gift from God,
	through Christ.  Only Christ was able to in himself live as
	a completely obedient servant.  But for Christians, Christ
	reveals God.  If we take this seriously, this means that Christ's
	loving obedience is something intrinsic to God.  So God "in himself"
	is not just creator, father, etc.  He is also son.  When God
	calls us to obedience, he is not asking us to do something he
	is incapable of doing himself.

Both of these considerations suggest that we need to think of God as
having being from eternity Father and Son.  (And Holy Spirit.  The
Holy Spirit has always been an afterthought in Christian doctrine.  As
far as I can see, it is a characteristic of the relationship.  It is
probably best thought of as being the presence of the Father with the
Son, and to the extent that we are incorporated in Christ, with us.)

It's certainly possible to map my thoughts onto traditional doctrine,
and I can even represent myself as being orthodox.  But I'm not sure
the traditional doctrine is really the best way of presenting things.
To me the traditional presentation of the Trinity takes the number
three too seriously. I am not convinced that there is anything which
we can count and find three of.  I think the whole issue of trying to
figure out what hypostasis means in this context and how there can be
three of them and still just one God is a complete red herring.  I'd
rather not start with the metaphysics of God, but with the concept of
God as having within his own inner life the relationship of love and
the roles of Father and Son.  

In fact I think "popular Christianity" has figured this out.  To most
Christians the Trinity is an abstruse mystery.  What they talk about
much more and more or less understand is the concept of a "personal
God".  I think that's really the implication of the Trinity that needs
to be preserved.

As far as the Incarnation, again I think it's a mistake to think of it
as a metaphysical mystery: how can there be two natures with one
hypostasis?  I certainly agree with what the traditional doctrine was
trying to do: to preserve the concept on the one side that Jesus is a
true man, not Superman or an angelic being, and on the other side that
he represents the real God, and not some subsidiary being.  But rather
than conceiving this in terms of Greek metaphysics, I'd rather start
with the Hebrew functional ideas, and say that Jesus represents God
because God chose him to do so.

I think theology went off on its wild goose chase because of the Logos
doctrine.  Paul talks about Christ as being preexistent.  So does John
in his prolog.  This led to the preexistent Logos, an entity that is
more or less separate from God.  It's the existence of this Logos that
opened the philosphical questions that led to the Trinity.  Frankly I
think this was all a mistake.  John's language about the preexistent
Logos was modelled after Jewish Torah speculation.  In the more
speculative parts of Judaism, Torah/Logos had become a sort of
preexistent entity.  "The Word was with God and the Word was God" came
right out of that tradition.  But the Jews didn't mean this to be
taken quite the way it was taken by Christian theology: as a real
entity separate from God that required clever metaphysics if we
weren't to end up with two Gods.  Ultimately, the Torah's existence
would have to be thought of as in God's intention, not as something
separate from him.  I think that's what John meant in the prolog. But
the Logos took on a life of its own in Christian theology, and
eventually had to be put back into God through Trinitarian doctrine.
I think we need to remove the Logos imagery from metaphysics and put
it back into the poetic realm where it belongs.