cc59+@andrew.cmu.edu (Caleb Cohen) (03/16/90)
friends,
I was on the net early last semester and then got caught up in work
here at school. I asked about baptism as I had never been baptised and
received many caring and helpful responses (it helped me a lot, but it
really came down to a support group here as well as our campus minister
who leads CSF (christian student fellowship)). I don't intend on being
long, but i know i will be, if you wish, you may skip this post, but
please read on as God has put me into a very touchy situation and i
think I need some help as well as some prayers, thanks.
First, I was baptised last December 8th and it is still the one of
the happiest days in my life. I have been a christian for over 2 and a
half years now and have finally been able to find a church and feel
loved in a christian community and the like. I have learned so much in
this past semester it is remarkable!!
We will skip from December to this past weekend. I went to see the
Geoff Moore concert with Greg and Rebecca Spraks. The concert was the
ending to a weekend junior high (~ 10-13) conference. The main reason I
wanted to go was for the ministry (Geoff Moore is awesome in ministry
value I think as well as great in song too). We had absolutely no way
to get to the concert until about 5 hours before it started , the busses
didn't return after 8 PM and they were out. I had been praying as well
as had been a friend of mine for transportation if God wanted us to go.
Should we not gotten transportation, that would have been ok. We went
there and there was a group of 4 of us. At the end he had an alter call
in which a friend of mine (the one who was praying with me for
transportation) went up to re-dedicate his life to Jesus.
They were short on counselors and asked that if a friend of yours
went up and you felt called to help him and pray with him. When the
three of us went back, my friend was already being taken care of by a
counselor. A man asked us (all college students at a junior high
conference) to counsel others as they were greatly understaffed (ALL of
the 'regular' staffers were HS students and I have a problem with that
as the person which I worked with was a HS freshman and, not degrading
his intentions, was not capable of counseling - in my opinion). I first
thought "No, I'm not qualified to counsel, am I?" After I thought about
it, I decided that I could do a good job at it as I went through a lot
and had a frim grasp on my junior high days as well as my early days and
trials of being a christian. Myself and another kid (the HS freshman I
talked about) were counseling 4 jr high students all ~12 years old, 2
girls, 2 boys. he got two names and addresses for the group sponsoring
the concert and I got the other two. he was then ready to leave without
even talking to these students. I told him that i wanted to pray with
them. I opened and none of them wanted to pray and he closed. He then
left. I stayed and talked to them as they came up in front of their
friends, most of them in tears, for a reason. They had a
problem/revalation/dedication to make known to God. Some of them were
accecpting Jesus into their life for the very first time and there was
no way that i was going to let a single person slip away from me - NO
WAY!!! We talked for a few minutes and no one really wanted to talk and
they seemed basically in a joking mood. I asked one more time telling
the kids how much I cared and that I wanted to help them.
One girl, Stephanie, broke down and hugged me. I could do nothing
except pray for guidence and for her healing of her then unknown
problem. I prayed that she would open up and let me try to help her.
She then didn't want to talk. I asked the others to leave so I could
talk to her alone. She then decided to talk to me if I promised I would
not talk to anyone else. There is an observation I have to make right
now: The ONLY reason I was in this room and talking to this girl was
totally, 100% by Gods will. I had 'given' up on even going to the
concert and left it to God. God called my friend to the alter which
brought me to the back. God gave me the strength to overcome my doubt
about myself and counsel others, sharing my love of Christ with them.
God gave me the perserverence to continue to care about these kids and
through prayer he let Stephanie open up and confide in me. This is just
an observation I was unable to make until later in the evening.
When she told me why she had come back, I nearly died. My heart
stopped for a beat or two. I was crushed. Please remember that
Stephanie is only 12 years old! She has already had an abortion. She
then broke down again and higged me. I imediately came to God in prayer
for guidence and the wisdom to help her. When she and I setteled down I
told her that God still loves her no matter what she did. I reminded
her (she is a christian) that this is why Jesus died, for this
particular event. That what she did was wrong, and if she realized that
and asked for forgiveness, it would be granted because that is what God
says and God doesn't lie. I kept reminding her how much God loves and
cares for her. How much he hurt for her and how much He wanted her to
come back to Him. She had not asked for forgivenes and didn't think He
would grant it. She didn't want to pray then. I did again and she then
had to leave with her group. I got her address and phone and gave her
mine and told her to call any time, call collect if she wants. I told
here how much we all care for her and how much God loves her. She
promised me that she would ask for forgiveness that night (Saturday).
To this point I had not cried at all, I hurt very very bad, I felt
empty inside. As soon as she left I started crying and praying for
nearly an hour. I was somewhat upset in the way in which God had
decided to use me and then I realized all which I stated earlier, that
He wanted me there. He brought me to the concert/back room/Stephanie
for a reason. He knew I was capable of doing His will and sharing His
love with Stephanie. I felt horrible for both her and myself until I
realized this. Two other counselors (adults) came and prayed with me.
I talked to them afterwards and they were do happy with the work which
the Holy Spirit (which I had been praying for just this past week and
was still looking for some sort of confirmation). I am now as happy and
joy filled as were the two who prayed with me but I still hurt for
Stephanie. I talked to her Sunday evening to just keep the friendship
there as I think I am the only 'adult' (meaning authority figure, not
saying that I am one, but... please try and understand what I mean) who
knows about this. Her parents do not even know. I am hurting for the
baby, for her as she does realize that it was wrong and was murder (no,
I did not say this to her, but in talking to her know how she feels, ...
you know). In our conversation Sunday she said that she had gone to
church (her family is christian, but i am not sure as to how 'strong' or
'devoted'. I sensed much anger hearing the background noise during the
phone call, I am also praying for her family. Please pray for Stephanie
and her family, and please pray for God and the Holy Spirit to work in
me and give me the wisdom to help her and to bring her closer to Him.
thank you very much for reading this and any help you may have for me in
dealing with Stephanie would be greaty appreciated.
In God's Love,
Caleb
==============================================================================
| ...Caleb..Cohen... | "When she got off her donkey, Caleb asked her, |
===========================| "What can I do for you?"" - Judges 1:14 |
| cc59@andrew.cmu.edu |==================================================
| ccohen@aj.sei.cmu.edu | "Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one |
===========================| can see the kingdom of God unless he is |
| 3000 years - No change | BORN AGAIN." - John 3:3 |
==============================================================================djo@pacbell.com (Dan'l DanehyOakes) (03/19/90)
In article <Mar.16.03.35.19.1990.26405@athos.rutgers.edu> cc59+@andrew.cmu.edu (Caleb Cohen) writes: > One girl, Stephanie, broke down and hugged me.... >...She then decided to talk to me if I promised I would >not talk to anyone else. Caleb, In all charity I fear I must begin with a criticism of your behavior. You accepted this girl's confession under terms of strict confidence. (Whether or not you actually promised to remain silent is irrelevant; by accepting her confession you accepted her conditions: and our Lord said that your word must be your bond.) In publishing her story on the Net -- and with her name attached to in, no less -- you have broken your word given before God. This is wrong; there is no other way to look at it. Nonetheless, what's done is done, and her pain deserves our prayer. Now that the word is out, let us look at how you can best help this girl. Before going further, I must confess that I am not the same "flavor" of Christian as yourself, and, in particular, I don't think abortion is always and invariably wrong. This is after long and prayerful study of the Bible, so please don't start "that argument" again; let us, as Christians, accept each other. I might, under other circumstances, suggest pointing out to Stephanie that many Christians *don't* condemn abortion out of hand, but, given your story, I see and accept that Stephanie believes that what she did was wrong, and that's enough for me. I am not out to change her mind any more than yours. (Still, if it might ease her mind you might consider this tactic.) The question at hand is this: how to help a brother or sister in Christ who has admitted that, prior to their conversion, they have committed an act that they, and you, consider to be unspeakably foul. The first place to look for help (as always) is in the words of our Lord. He said that "the one sin which will not be forgiven is the sin against the Holy Spirit." While just what the "sin against the Spirit" is has been subject to much debate amongst the learned, I don't recall anyone ever suggesting that it referred to abortion. Therefore, this constitutes an unequivocal statement that Stephanie's sin can and will be forgiven if she takes it to our Lord in confession and repentance. >I reminded >her (she is a christian) that this is why Jesus died, for this >particular event. I have to question your tactics here. Pointing out that Jesus died for a particular sin, though it is true, often does more harm than good. If a brother or sister is already feeling the pain of their sin, then reminding them of what Jesus suffered for that particular sin may be too much for them to bear. Souls have been driven away from our Lord's fold in exactly this way. (This is a better tactic for the reprimand of a brother or sister who already believes but persists unrepentant in some sin.) Gently reminding them that the price for their sin has already been paid by our Lord may be more appropriate, but can still be risky. Better is simply to remind her of God's love for them, and to show her that God loves her personally as much as anyone. Remind her of St Paul, "the worst of sinners," who stood by and watched as St Stephen was stoned to death, and yet was saved and became one of the greatest pillars of the early Church. And remind her that it is through God's love that you are here, now, listening to her and caring for her: if not for Jesus' sake, why would you bother with her problems? You've got problems of your own! But God's love works through us to reach out to each other, and here you are. God loves her. >She had not asked for forgivenes and didn't think He >would grant it. She didn't want to pray then. I did again and she then >had to leave with her group. I got her address and phone and gave her >mine and told her to call any time, call collect if she wants. I sincerely hope she does call you. You clearly are a loving child of God and can help this girl a lot. But I'd suggest not calling her again; her family situation sounds bad, and it might brew resentment that would do more harm than good. In God's love, do with all your strength the work God has given you -- but remember also that they also serve who only stand and wait. Patience is a virtue beyond price. Would you offer violence to a well-intentioned virus on its slow road to symbiosis? -- William S. Burroughs, THE JOB Dan'l Danehy-Oakes [EEEEK! I should have caught that. It's an interesting ethical question how far one can spread information given in confidence. I'd say that unless there is a very specific promise to the contrary, consulting a colleague who is similarly sworn to confidentiality is probably OK. But certainly enough detail was given here for the person to be identifiable to others who were at the same meeting. It's common for pastors to talk about situations they've seen, but they generally do this some time later, and remove all personal details. --clh]
judy@uunet.uu.net (Judy Leedom Tyrer) (03/19/90)
In article <Mar.16.03.35.19.1990.26405@athos.rutgers.edu> cc59+@andrew.cmu.edu (Caleb Cohen) writes: > >Stephanie is only 12 years old! She has already had an abortion. ... >... That what she did was wrong, ... This deeply disturbes me. You are counseling a young woman in the name of Jesus and yet you seem to have missed one of His most important teachings, "Judge not lest ye be judged." How dare you tell a person who has come to you in a vulnerable situation that what she did was wrong. That is NOT your perogative. In fact, it is the fastest way to get her turn away from Christ. Whether or not you feel abortion is right, only God can judge if what she did was wrong!!! Next time you take it upon yourself to counsel (or are put in a counseling situation) try some humility. Teach a loving, giving, caring Christ. And let HIM handle the situation from there. [To be fair, the account as he gave it suggests that she already regarded it as wrong. He was being asked to help her deal with the consequences. --clh]