[soc.religion.christian] After J____, Are Jews practicing *real* Judaism?

YZKCU@cunyvm.bitnet (Yaakov Kayman) (06/08/90)

As a real Jew, i.e., a believing and practicing one, I'd like to lay
one matter concerning Judaism, on the one hand, and Christianity, on
the other, to its deserved final rest.

If you're born Christian and wish to follow Christianity, fine. No
problem. Judaism believes that the righteous of ALL the Nations of the
World, whose righteousness it defines in terms their keeping the Seven
Noachide Commandments given by G-d to humanity, have a share in the World
to Come, or "Heaven". (I will be happy to send a copy of those seven
commandments to any non-Jew who requests it.)

Understand, however, that Judaism is not Christianity and that
Christianity is not Judaism. They aren't, never have been and never will
be alike.

One very major difference is that Judaism rejects in toto the concept of
any man being divine, J____ included. Judaism remains Judaism *BECAUSE
OF* its rejection of J____ (and because of other things, obviously), NOT
IN SPITE OF that rejection. Judaism mandates the acceptance of a uniquely
One G-d, Whose Oneness permits neither separation nor combination.
Without this belief, one may call him/herself anything he/she wants -
ANYTHING EXCEPT A BELIEVING JEW.

Yaakov K.
--------
Yaakov Kayman      (212) 903-3666       City University of New York

BITNET:   YZKCU@CUNYVM        "Lucky is the shepherd, and lucky his flock
Internet: YZKCU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU     about whom the wolves complain"

hedrick@cs.rutgers.edu (06/08/90)

[Yaakov Kayman posted a note indicating that anyone following Jesus is
by definition not a Jew, because believing that a person is divine
violates a basic principle of Judaism.  --clh]

I read this posting with a good deal of sadness.  This is the sort of
discussion that has caused a good deal of grief in the past, and
little enlightenment.

The question I'd like to look at is: what can you reasonably expect to
accomplish by protesting against the term Messianic Jew.  If the
concern is that something is being misrepresented, this is of course
an important matter.  But I don't think anyone is in any danger of
believing that Judaism as a whole has accepted Christ.  So probably
there is no actual confusion.

In my view, the real reason these discussions become highly charged is
because the claim to be Jewish (or Christian, in the other examples)
is tied to the claim to be legitimate heirs of the original tradition.
To accept that Messianic Jews have the right to use the term Jew, you
are admitting that they are part of the Jewish tradition.  Since you
see Christianity as denying a foundational principle of Judaism, this
is of course something you can't agree to.  If you didn't see that
contradiction, you would be Christian yourself, and we wouldn't have
this problem in the first place.  The problem is, the reverse is true
also.  Messianic Jews believe that Christ is the fulfillment of Jewish
hopes, and thus that they are Jews in the full sense.  They obviously
don't see Christianity as violating the dictum that God is One, or
they wouldn't be Christians, and we wouldn't have the problem either.

So what is comes down to is that the disagreement over the proper use
of the term "Jew" is intrinsically tied to the basic disagreement, and
we can no more expect to get an agreement over whether it is proper
for Messianic Jews to use that term than we can expect all Jews to
suddenly become Christian (or visa versa).

One thing that I will say is that I think Christians may have made too
little effort to explain to Jews what is meant by our basic
Christological statements.  We do not mean to say that Jesus is
another God, but the result of the one God that we both believe in
making himself visible in history.  I realize that you believe God
doesn't work that way.  I don't expect to convince you that he does.
But I'd at least like to convince you that I'm not worshipping a
different God.  Christian theology has a history of picking language
that is intentionally paradoxical.  This is because our primary
problems have been with people who wanted to relax the tension by
getting rid of one side or the other of the paradox.  But in the
process of guarding ourselves against misunderstandings within the
Christian community, we have adopted language that is likely to seem
odd, if not downright blasphemous, to Jews.  Properly speaking, it's
misleading to say that Christians see Jesus as being divine.  More
properly, we see him as being God.  The One God.  The same one you
believe in.  (How could it be otherwise?  There's only one.)  God
decided to show up in his own creation.  Again, I can understand your
saying that this is impossible.  That's fine.  But it least it would
be helpful to understand that we don't see Jesus as a separate god.

By the way, it should not be necessary for you to tell Christians
about the Noachide commandments.  They are referred to in the NT.  I
don't know how much you know about the early history of the Church.
Please recall that the original Christians were Jews.  (Well, I know
you don't think they were proper Jews, but you know what I mean.)
Initially, many of them had envisioned Christianity as being only for
Jews.  Anyone who wanted to become a Christian would first have to
convert to Judaism.  However they eventually concluded exactly what
you say, that God did not intend for the whole world to become Jewish.
Instead it was decided that someone could become a Christian while
remaining a Gentile, so long as they obey the Noachide commandments.
(Acts 15 is a description of the discussions leading up to this.  It
appears that they took for granted a few of the Noachide commandments
as being already implied by someone wanting to be a Christian, and so
they mentioned only 4 of the 7 rules.)  After this decision, the
Christian church contained both Jews and Gentiles.  Over time,
apparently most Jewish Christians decided that it was no longer
necessary to continue to be observant Jews.  (Unfortunately I don't
know the details of this -- as far as I know, no one does.)  However
as far as Christian theology is concerned, the groundwork is still
there to have both Jewish and Gentile Christians.  

In many ways I wish this problem would go away, because it seems to me
that Christian Jews create an incredible amount of friction between
Christians and the Jewish community.  On the other hand, given what
Jesus himself said about obeying the Law, I can hardly ask them to
give up being Jews.  It's a problem we're going to have to learn to
live with.

Thus I respectfully receive your protest, and understand your upset.
But I am also not sure that much can be done about it.  I certainly
don't expect it to result in Messianic Jews no longer calling
themselves Jews.  Nor do I myself consider it improper for them to do
so.  How could I?  Like them, I also consider Christ to be the
fulfillment of the hopes of the prophets.  I hope this is an area in
which we will respectfully agree to disagree.