cattanac@casca.cs.uiuc.edu (Scott Cattanach) (06/05/90)
I saw a poll taken of Presbyterians (my denomination, BTW) over the question 'Do you consider pre-marital sex to be immoral?' The breakdown of 'yes' answers went something like this: 60% lay members, average Joe-in-the-pew 40% elders 30% clergy 20% specialized clergy The numbers are approximations from memory, but the pattern is correct. 'specialized clergy' is the term the poll used, I won't venture a guess as to its meaning. It just struck me as odd that the further up the chain you went, the lower the % that thought pre-marital sex immoral. Comments? -- -catt (cattanac@cs.uiuc.edu) For the list of ascii art, finger me (and ship me your ascii contributions). NOTE: I don't need any pictures of nekkid women, but thanks for the offers. [Specialized clergy would be clergy in positions other than pastor of a church, I suspect. I don't think they're "higher". --clh]
credmond@watmath.waterloo.edu (Chris Redmond) (06/07/90)
In article <Jun.5.00.20.52.1990.17342@athos.rutgers.edu> cattanac@casca.cs.uiuc.edu (Scott Cattanach) writes: >I saw a poll taken of Presbyterians over the >question 'Do you consider pre-marital sex to be immoral?' The >breakdown of 'yes' answers went something like this: >60% lay members, average Joe-in-the-pew >40% elders >30% clergy >20% specialized clergy >It just struck me as odd that >the further up the chain you went, the lower the % that thought >pre-marital sex immoral. Comments? >[Specialized clergy would be clergy in positions other than pastor >of a church, I suspect. I don't think they're "higher". --clh] I suspect the outcome would be similar for many other questions about morality, social issues, even structural change in the church itself. Probable explanation: the more time you've spent thinking about moral or ecclesiastical or social issues, the more you've read about these subjects and heard lectures about them, and the more direct experience of other people's troubles and dilemmas you have had, the less likely you are to make black-and-white judgements about Right and Wrong. CAR credmond@watmath
cattanac@casca.cs.uiuc.edu (Scott Cattanach) (06/07/90)
[cattanac@casca.cs.uiuc.edu (Scott Cattanach) posted a poll that listed "specialized clergy" as group of respondents. He asked what that meant. I said that Specialized clergy would be clergy in positions other than pastor of a church, I suspect. --clh] My guesses would be : 1) ministers of music, etc. 2) 'higher ups' you may be right about 1) being closest to being correct. -- -catt (cattanac@cs.uiuc.edu) [I'm an elder in the church involved, so I'm not just guessing. There are no ministers of music in the Presbyterian Church (USA). Not even ministers of education. The Presbyterian tradition defines a very specific role for a Minister of the Word and Sacraments, which makes it impossible to have the "ministers of XXX" that some other denominations do. I'm not sure what a "higher up" would be. There are certainly ministers serving in administrative roles in Presbyteries, Synods, and the General Assembly. However they are not thought of as being in any sense "higher". These are staff positions. We are fairly careful to avoid any structure that would give somebody the idea they are a "higher up". There are moderators of the prebytery, synod, and G.A., but these are temporary positions that last for only a year, and alternate between ministers and elders. Specialized clergy would be chaplains, seminary faculty, and others in roles other than traditional parish ministry. But for the word "clergy" to be used, they would have to be Ministers of the Word and Sacrament, because that's all we've got. Even a "specialized ministry" has to involve the basic tasks that a minister does, or the Presbytery involved wouldn't allow a minister to serve in it. --clh]
mike@turing.cs.unm.edu (Michael I. Bushnell) (06/07/90)
I think the reason for the difference is pretty clear. The increase
in percentages of people who accept pre-marital sex as you get more
and more "ecclesiastical" (for lack of a better word) match a very
similar increase as you get more educated.
What does *that* tell us?
-mib
--
Michael I. Bushnell \ This above all; to thine own self be true
LIBERTE, EGALITE, FRATERNITE \ And it must follow, as the night the day,
mike@unmvax.cs.unm.edu /\ Thou canst not be false to any man.
CARPE DIEM / \ Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!cattanac@clitus.cs.uiuc.edu (Scott Cattanach) (06/09/90)
cattanac@casca.cs.uiuc.edu (Scott Cattanach) writes: >[I'm an elder in the church involved, so I'm not just guessing. There >are no ministers of music in the Presbyterian Church (USA). Not even I could have sworn that my church (Presbyterian, BTW) had a minister of music, at least until he left recently. Oh well. -- -catt (cattanac@cs.uiuc.edu)