gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (08/06/90)
I got into a discussion the other day about whether or not the Old Covenant (a.k.a. Old Testament) was still in effect today, in whole or in part. I maintain that it is not. Here are my thoughts on this. Is there more than one way to God? Put another way, is the Old Covenant finished and replaced by a New Covenant? Or does the Old Covenant run parallel to the New Covenant? Those seem to be the two positions that I can identify. To illustrate them graphically: A. Parallel: |---Old Covenant------------|----------------------------| |---New Covenant-------------| B. Successive: |---Old Covenant------------|---New Covenant-------------| If the Old Covenant still pertains, then there is another way to God not through Jesus Christ. However, if the Old Covenant was replaced by the New Covenant (which I believe), then the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. In Romans 3:20, 23-24, we find Paul saying, "...by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;..." (Before I go further, all quotes are from the New American Standard Bible [NAS] unless otherwise stated.) Then in Romans 6:14, we read, "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace." Here we find Paul saying that we are no longer under the Law (of the Old Covenant or Old Testament), but we are under grace instead. What does he mean by the "law"? Is this just the ceremonial law? Verse 7 of Romans 7 clears this up: "What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."" Paul clearly identifies the Law as the Ten Commandments (the Decalog) by quoting one of the Ten. This means that Christians are no longer even under the Ten Commandments. Christ came to fulfill the Law. So the entire old contract has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ and no longer applies to anyone, whether he be Hebrew or Christian. Let me hasten to restate that there are very valid reasons for studying the Old Testament and for singing songs from the Old Testament. We can still learn many things about our God from the Law, even though we are not under it. The book of Hebrews goes into this even more explicitly. There, we read these words: "But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. "For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: 'The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from the, declares the Lord. This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my law's in their minds and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.' "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." (Heb 8:6-13, NIV) We see clearly from this passage in Hebrews that the first covenant (the Old Covenant) is obsolete and was ready to disappear in the first century. Thus, I would have to conclude that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled and terminated, and the New Covenant has replaced it. Often some rightly ask, "Doesn't this mean that you have no laws and a license to sin?" Rightly because it often seems that way from looking at the lives of some Christians. So lest any of you misunderstand me and think that not being under the Law gives us license to sin, I would hasten to remind you that in the New Covenant (New Testament) we are called to an even higher and purer way to live. Consider this illustration (from James McKeever): "Let us say that someone was driving down a highway that had a speed limit of 50 miles per hour posted all along it. Now if someone were to absolutley guarantee that individual that there was not a policeman within 200 miles, how fast would he drive? My guess is that he would tend to drive 60 or maybe 70 miles per hour. "On the other hand, let's say that all of the 55 miles-per-hour speed limit signs were taken down and a policeman was riding in the front seat with the driver. If he told the driver to drive 55, how fast would that individual drive? Probably 53 miles per hour. (If the policeman told that individual to drive 30 miles per hour or, in some rare circumstances, even 70 miles per hour, the driver would obey precisely what the policeman said, regardless of the signs along the highway.) "So it is with God in His relationship with man. In the Old Testament, we had the written Law (the signs along the highway). In the New Testament, we have the Holy Spirit living inside us (sitting in the front seat with us). If we are really following God, we are thereby called to live in a higher and purer way. "In the Old Testament, one was not to commit adultery, but under the guidance of the Holy Spirit we are not even to lust (Matt 5:27,28). Under the old covenant, one was not to commit murder, but under the new covenant, with the Holy Spirit in our hearts, we are not even to remain angry with a brother (Matt 5:21,22). So we are called to an even higher, purer and more righteous way of life than that which was required under the old covenant." We are under a New Covenant with God. This New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant and is superior to the Old Covenant. The Law is in our minds and written on our hearts. The Holy Spirit indwells us both to will and to do according to the will and law of God. This is grace. It is also grace that enables us to be born again, as Jesus said to Nicodemus we must be. Paul says, "...--it is by grace you have been saved." (Eph 2:5b; NIV) Then he elaborates on this, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8,9; NIV) Jesus said that He didn't come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. I'm thankful and grateful to God that Jesus did just that. For the glory of God and the Lamb, Gene Gross [This may be presenting a false dichotomy. I think Paul would say that even under the old covenant, salvation was through Christ. You seem to imply that there was some other basis for salvation there. Romans is primarily about the relationship between Christianity and Judaism. As I understand Paul's argument, he rejects the idea that anyone was ever saved by the Law. People were always saved by grace. The Law was simply a way to help lead people to God. But the covenant with Israel is more than the Law. It is God's choice of Israel as his people. Paul clearly believes that this covenant is still in force, and that in the end God will save Israel (Rom 11:25ff). One could read Rom 11 as saying that Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel, and therefore are beneficiaries of God's promises to his people. In that case, it's not clear that there's a new covenant at all. However it does seem in Acts 15, in Rom, and in Gal, that at least for a while Jewish and Gentile Christians operated under what seemed to be different covenants. They both considered themselves to be saved through Christ. But Jewish Christians followed the Law, and Gentiles did not. Thus the most natural interpretation seems to be two convenants that represent not two different ways of being saved but a special role for Israel in the old covenant, marked by the gift of the Law, and the fact that Christ's role under the new covenant is visible whereas under the old it was not. It may be wrong to juxtapose Paul and Hebrews, who seem to take slightly different approaches to this. But one way to unify them would be to say that the final disappearance of the old covenant will happen only after Christ's coming, when all of Israel is saved. At that point, the wall between Israel and the rest of us will finally break down, and Christ's role will be visible to all. But however you read things, I think it's a mistake to suggest that there was ever a way of being saved other than Christ. And I would say that until the final reconciliation of Israel to Christ described in Rom 11:26, I would have to acknowledge Israel continuing to operate in parallel with the Church, under its own covenant with God. --clh]
kamphau@oktext.sbc.com (Mark Kamphaus) (08/08/90)
In<Aug.5.21.45.31.1990.18382@athos.rutgers.edu>
gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes:
# I got into a discussion the other day about whether or not the Old
# Covenant (a.k.a. Old Testament) was still in effect today, in whole or
# in part. I maintain that it is not. Here are my thoughts on this.
#
# Is there more than one way to God? Put another way, is the Old Covenant
# finished and replaced by a New Covenant? Or does the Old Covenant run
# parallel to the New Covenant? Those seem to be the two positions that I
# can identify. To illustrate them graphically:
#
# A. Parallel:
# |---Old Covenant------------|----------------------------|
# |---New Covenant-------------|
#
#
# B. Successive:
# |---Old Covenant------------|---New Covenant-------------|
#
[rest of article deleted as well as comments by clh]
I believe both A and B are true in this manner:
A. addresses the covenant through the history of the earth.
at one point there was only the Old Covenant (ie, LAW). The
LAW was given to convict of SIN, and Death was its punishment.
Those who did not live by the LAW are considered to be under
SIN and will be dealt with by God's wrath. Jesus came and fulfilled
the LAW. That is He lived without SIN. As the punishment for SIN is
Death, the reward for SINlessness is eternal life. Jesus therefore
recieved the Reward of eternal life. The New Covenant is the
agreement or manner in which We can become part of Jesus. When we
accept Jesus, we accept His death as our own. In this way, we also
fulfil the requirement that the punishment for our sin is death.
B. shows the transformation of the old into the new. The person
becomes a new being in Christ and is no longer under the Law, not because
it is done away with but because through our death <the death we share
with Christ> we have fulfilled the LAW. In Christ, we are under Grace
and as there is no LAW; we are no longer under SIN but under Liberty.
Nahum 1 provides a clear illustration to the duality of God. Sin will
be dealt with, either through Grace or through Wrath.
Only those who have accepted Jesus are under grace of the New Covenant.
The Law of the OT is still in effect to convict those who have not
accepted Him of their sins. At the time a person becomes a Christian, then
the LAW is fulfilled *for that person.* And, being fulfilled, it no longer
has power over the person. The LAW must be fulfilled, it is not
annulled.
The point I make is there is either
LAW/SIN or GRACE/LIBERTY. No one can live without
sinning under the LAW and the only way to Grace is through
the acceptance of Jesus.
markgibson@b11.ingr.com (Stanley) (08/08/90)
In article <Aug.5.21.45.31.1990.18382@athos.rutgers.edu> gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes: >"In the Old Testament, one was not to commit adultery, but under the >guidance of the Holy Spirit we are not even to lust (Matt 5:27,28). Coveting your neighbors wife was condemded under the Law of Moses (Exodus 19). If that doesn't mean lust what does it mean? Most people have a concept of the OT being a system of works that didn't require faith, a system where the heart didn't matter. This isn't true. Faith and a pure heart have always been necessary to please God. It is true that Jesus has fulfilled the Old Law, having nailed it to the cross. And it is true that there is much for us to learn by studying the OT. There is much there to increase our faith. Think of the prophets and what was written about/by them. Imagine a hugh room, pitch black, with a man blindfolded inside. He is spun around and given a bow and arrow. He shoots it into the air. Many years later the scene is repeated and another arrow is sent out. Again and again, over a span of many years, hundreds of arrows are shot in seemingly happhazard fashion. And then at the appointed time the room is lit up and a target revealed. Each arrow has found it way exactly to the target. The arrows are prophecies and the target, of course, is Jesus Christ! Stanley Gibson
dave@mars.njit.edu (Dave Michaels cccc) (08/12/90)
As far as my opinion goes, about the nature of how can we be saved, I
see us as people on one side of a mile-wide chasm, with heaven on the
other.
We have no way to build planes on our own. If we could build them
(if we could follow the Law) we could get to heaven. But, we can't.
So, Jesus has to get us across. Praise God for he has blessed us
with His Son!
Anxious to see you all on the other side!
-d.
--
-Dave Michaels, vigilent student of the New Jersey Institute of Tecnology
INTERNET: dave@mars.njit.edu "I am the resurrection and the life. He who
BITNET: dave@orion.BITNET believes in Me, though he may die, shall live."
-Jesus Christ, John 11:25