[soc.religion.christian] Tithing; masturbation; politicking

MARK@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu (Mark Woodruff) (07/30/90)

If anyone knows some appropriate passages on either of the above two,
please send them this way.

mark

cms@dragon.uucp (08/06/90)

In article <Jul.29.15.21.24.1990.13300@athos.rutgers.edu>, MARK@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu (Mark Woodruff) writes:
> If anyone knows some appropriate passages on either of the above two,
> please send them this way.
> 
> mark

 Tithing:  Gen 14:20, Heb 7:2-6, Gen 28:22, Lev 27:30-33, Num 18:-21-24,
Deut 12:6, 7, 17, 19; 14:22-29; 26:12-15, Neh 10:37, 38; Amos 4:4, Heb 7:5-9,
Num 18:26, Neh 10:38, 39, 12:44, 13:5, 12; 2 Chron 31:11, 12, Mal 3:8, 10;
Matt 23:23, Luke 11:42, 18:12; Tobit 1:6, 5:13, Judith 11:13, Ben Sira 35:9, 
1 Macc 3:49, 10:31, 11:35.

 Masturbation:  You've got me.  The whole Bible's full of sex, but I couldn't
find masturbation in any of the condemnations.  You'd think it'd be somewhere,
what with the Roman Catholic Church's attitude towards it.  Perhaps the Church
views it as a special case of homosexuality :-).

 An odd combination.  Have you considered purchasing a good concordance?  I
recommend Eerdman's.

-- 
Cindy Smith
emory!dragon!cms

[Well, at the very least masturbation would cause ritual uncleanness
according to the Law.  According to Lev 15:16ff (and Deut 23:10 ff)
unintentional emissions cause uncleanness.  So intentional ones surely
would.  Since I'm at work, I don't have access to all my reference
materials.  This means I can't document things as well as I should.
But my understanding is that at least for Paul, fornication would
include all sexual activity outside marriage.  Masturbation is sort of
on the borderline of that definition, so I wouldn't want to push it,
but it's hard for me to think that Paul would regard it as a good
practice.  

I think these days I'd recommend a computerized Bible rather than a
concordance, for those who have computers.

--clh]

cms@dragon.uucp (08/06/90)

In article <Jul.29.15.21.24.1990.13300@athos.rutgers.edu>, MARK@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu (Mark Woodruff) writes:
> If anyone knows some appropriate passages on either of the above two,
> please send them this way.
> 
> mark

 Oh, yes, I almost forgot politicking.  Psalm 12:8 (corruption), Es 3 (in the
courts of Ahasuerus), Da 6:4-15, 2 Sam 15:2-6, Matt 27:23-27 (placating crowd), 
Mark 15:15, Luke 23:13-25, John 18:38,39; 19:4-13; 2 Sam 15:24-29 (priest 
acting as partisan for David), 1 Kings 1:11-40 (Nathan influencing selection 
of David's successor); 2 Sam 20:16-22 (wise woman of Abel who saved city
through diplomacy); 1 King 1:15-21 (Bathsheba securing crown for Solomon);
Matthew 14:3-11, Mark 6:17-28 (Herodias influencing administration of Herod);
Matthew 20:20-23 (Mother of sons of Zebedee seeking favor for her children);
Proverbs 19:6 (entreating favor of prince, giving gifts for friendship);
Proverbs 29:26, Dan 5:10-12, Acts 12:20.

 I might also recommend Nave's topical Bible.  Unfortunately, it does not
contain the deuterocanonicals, but is useful, nonetheless.

-- 
Sincerely,
Cindy Smith
emory!dragon!cms

BVAUGHAN@pucc.princeton.edu (Barbara Vaughan) (08/08/90)

[MARK@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu asked, among other things, about the Biblical
position on masturbation.  cms@dragon.uucp said she didn't think
there was any condemnation.  I commented that based on Lev 15:16ff
and Deut 23:10 ff it would at least cause ritual uncleanness.  --clh]


Wasn't Onan struck dead by God for 'spilling his seed upon the ground'
in order to avoid raising up an heir for his brother by marrying his
brother's widow?  This of course doesn't make clear whether the trans-
gression was sexual or whether he was being punished for greed, but
either masturbation or _coitus interruptus_ (withdrawal) would seem to
be 'spilling seed upon the ground'.

Barbara Vaughan

blais@emx.utexas.edu (Donald Blais) (08/08/90)

In article <Aug.5.20.30.37.1990.17980@athos.rutgers.edu> cms@dragon.uucp writes:
> Masturbation:  You've got me.  The whole Bible's full of sex, but I couldn't
>find masturbation in any of the condemnations.  You'd think it'd be somewhere,

Genesis 38:9 describes how Onan shirked his legal responsiblity to
provide an heir for his dead brother.  Instead of impregnating his
brother's wife, he spilled his seed upon the ground.  At some point
tradition extended Onan's crime to masturbation.  The English word
"onanism" is sometimes used as a synonym for "masturbation".  The
Hebrew word for the same is based on the name Onan as well.
-- 
Donald E. Blais             Internet: blais@emx.utexas.edu
Computation Center          BITNET:   blais@utaivc
University of Texas         UUCP:     uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!blais
Austin, TX 78712            Phone:    +1-512-471-3241

tp0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas Carl Price) (08/12/90)

re: Onan

The law at that time (also in the Mosaic law) was that a man was required to
conceive an heir for his dead brother with his dead brother's widow. Any man
performing this obligation was also obligated to go to the trouble and
expense of raising and maintaining the heir and the widow, who would at the
heir's majority recieve all that was once the dead man's: in this way the
household and family division of the dead man would be continued.

Onan's sin was unquestionably not sexual in nature. He had acquired the
property of his brother temporarily and wished to keep it for himself. The
crowning insult of his wickedness was that he wished to use his widowed sister-
in-law for his own gratification: his practice of coitus interruptus was a
birth-control mechanism intended to prevent the conception of an heir for
whom he would be responsible.

I'm not coming down pro or con on masturbation or what have you, but the
association of Onan with sexual sin is a Victorian fallacy.

Tom

hwt@.bnr.ca (Henry Troup) (08/12/90)

In article <Aug.8.03.55.08.1990.13123@athos.rutgers.edu> ut-emx!blais@emx.utexas.edu (Donald Blais) writes:
 
>Genesis 38:9 describes how Onan shirked his legal responsiblity to
>provide an heir for his dead brother.  Instead of impregnating his
>brother's wife, he spilled his seed upon the ground.  At some point

I notice that the sin of Onan was failing to do something which would be
considered morally reprehensible and legally incest today.  It was in fact
the very thing over which Henry VIII Tudor gained a divorce and split the
Church.  Interesting...


--
Henry Troup - BNR owns but does not share my opinions | 21 years in Canada...
uunet!bnrgate!hwt%bwdlh490 HWT@BNR.CA 613-765-2337    |