[soc.religion.christian] Re^2: How did you become a Christian?

lshaw@walt.cc.utexas.edu (logan shaw) (08/12/90)

In article <Aug.8.03.29.58.1990.12788@athos.rutgers.edu> you write:
>In article <Aug.5.21.08.08.1990.18259@athos.rutgers.edu>, kday@dtoa1.dt.navy.mil (Day) writes:
>
>> They invited me along to play guitar. That evening they all sang a song
>> where each verse mentioned a day of the week and you were supposed to
>> stand on the day you got saved. 
>
>Out of curiosity, could the poster of this or someone who shares
>his philosophy explain what "saved" means in this context? Is it
>an experiance so intense you remember what day of the week it was?
>Can you come to believe and not remember it was on a Wednesday?

My definition, which is pretty much standard (most people here will probably
agree on it), of becoming saved it this:

(1) You've realized you are fallible - you make mistakes.
(2) You've realized that you are therefore imperfect and not technically
    worthy of being with God, etc.
(3) You're aware that God knows this, and being a Righteously Cool Dood (tm),
    has made a provision for this little situation by sending his Son to
    die on a cross as a sacrifice to make up for this.  (God has offered
    to pick up the tab of your sins for you).

and, the most important and vital bit (this next one is the point where you
go from not being saved to being saved)

(4) You admit to God you can't make it on your own, and you decide to
    accept the gift that God is offering to you, and you tell God.
    (Of course, He'll know if you don't mention it to Him, but it's
    a good idea to.)  This is point at which you put things in God's
    hands.

In short, the point where you've become saved is the point where you've
decided that not only do you know (believe) how things work, but you accept
God's gift.  In the Bible, it says that even the devil believes, but he
is certainly not saved.  He knows the facts, but that doesn't save him.
So you see that you have to make the choice.  (in case you're curious,
the bit about the devil comes from James 2:19).  You have to decide
to cooperate.

So, in this sense, you can remember when it happens specifically, because
you make a conscious decision.  It doesn't have to be incredibly intense,
but I would bet it generally is.

>Can you become "unsaved" after being "saved?" Swaggart and Jimmy
>and Tammy come to mind. They were "saved", but acted like they
>needed a little more salvation, so can i assume it's not an absolute
>term?

Being saved is in some ways like being married.  Once you get married,
you're married, even if you do something the other person doesn't like.
Even if you're not on speaking terms with the other person.  (This analogy
assumes divorce does not exist).  Being saved means you've decided to
start a relationship with God.  One of the neat things about God is He
is into forgiving people.  He'll forgive you for anything.  (Otherwise,
sending his Son to die woulda been kind of a waste).  So, he won't end
the relationship even if you do something very dastardly.

Incidentally, I sometimes have doubts as to whether Jim and Tammy were
ever saved in the first place.  They certainly don't act like it.  But,
I'm not them or God, so I don't know firsthand, and I can't say whether
they are saved or not.

>Does "saved" mean becoming a member of a church? If so, it seems

No, you don't have to be a member of a church to be saved.  You might
_want_ to go to a church though, to hang around with other people who
are saved, so as to encourage each other, etc.

>to imply that this is the ultimate, final act of salvation. Does one
>who is "saved" need to work on himself or improve himself in any way,

No, part of the whole idea of being saved is the fact that you aren't
capable of making yourself good enough (i.e. perfect), so you have to
have God do that for you.  (Perfect from His point of view, that is).
You will still make mistakes, and He'll gladly forgive you.  But, it
is A Good Thing to improve yourself.  So, you don't absolutely _need_
to, but you probably will want to.  Remember that you never have to
earn it, it's a gift.  There's nothing you can do to deserve it, but
you don't ever have to.  It's not dependant on your abilities or
your actions.

>or is this no longer important? Perhaps it's done on the day of the 
>week he remembers when he was saved?

Things where you do certain things on certain days, etc.  are just
gimmicks (not meant negatively) made up by churches to help you remember
to do things, or maybe to motivate you to do them, kinda like a goal.
There's nothing wrong with them, but they're not an essential part of
being a Christian.  (Being saved == being a Christian)

>Hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful. I'd just like

No problem.  They all sounded like good questions to me.  If you have
more and would like to, feel free to email me.  I hope I haven't been
too verbose about this (I have a tendancy to do that)

>an explanation for terminology that's very common, but which i don't
>really grasp, not coming from that background.

Gets kinda confusing after a while, doesn't it?  Just remember that
when Jesus walked the earth, he never once uttered the term "Ecclesiastical".

>	ando.


-- 
============================================================================
"The beauty queen, clevely clad,                    Logan Shaw
 admires herself in a cigarette ad.                 lshaw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
 Will she admit that all was in vain                ========================
 when the face in her mirror cracks like a windowpane?"
              -Elim Hall, _Things_Break_