cedric@fuzzy.corp.sun.com (Cedric Chin) (07/24/90)
I'm curious and would like to know how you became a Christian -- or what's keeping you from becoming one. cedric@mariposa.sun.com
johnw@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Warren) (08/06/90)
In article <Jul.24.04.50.43.1990.17571@athos.rutgers.edu> cedric@fuzzy.corp.sun.com (Cedric Chin) writes: >I'm curious and would like to know how you became a Christian -- or >what's keeping you from becoming one. > > > >cedric@mariposa.sun.com I was raised Catholic and got all the Christian education implanted when I was growing up, but made a specific decision to have Christ as my master when I got out of high school, after reading a few books by C.S. Lewis. I'm not sure who or what is the object of your curiosity, but I'll continue. The only thing that can keep you from becoming a Christian is the lack of desire to follow Christ. You don't have to believe in inerrancy, you don't have to be righteous or holy (and you don't have to pledge to the Lord that you will try, after you start following Him, to be righteous, since He puts His righteousness in you in response to your faith), you just have to trust in the Lord. He gave you many things to go by: He gave you a book full of promises (which, again I say, you don't have to take the whole thing as true or the whole thing as false -- try starting with the Resurrection and work from there); He put you in a specific situation with its problems and joys; He gave you desires, knee-jerk reactions, loves, your whole psychological and physical makeup; He put certain people in your life. There are many signs and issues and opportunities to follow actively the Lord. I hope this answers your question.
muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers /100000) (08/06/90)
cedric@fuzzy.corp.sun.com (Cedric Chin) writes: >I'm curious and would like to know how you became a Christian -- or >what's keeping you from becoming one. OK, this is (very short) how I became a christian: I was a shortwave listener, and often then you receive christian stations too. My interest for faith in general was already there because I had been reading in the bible for a while. I liked mythology stories a lot, I just had read the Egyptian and the Nordic ones, and now I had started to read the Jewish/Christian 'mythology'. This, in combination with some radio programs, fascinated me. I was looking for answers that arose to me because of some colleges on quantum mechanics and cosmology (I study physics), and I saw that the Christian faith would answer many of my questions. Besides, I knew that if God exists, that He probably must have a pupose with the earth, so the question was: Which religion is right? I found out that all religions, except for Christianity, are basically the same. Christianity is unique because Jesus does NOT teach that we must make ourselves acceptable for God in some way (offering, going to church, be a nice person, money, rituals) but that it is the other way round: We can only depend on Gods grace first, then He will change us through His Spirit, and make us holy. So I felt that, once you are on the point of choosing one of the religions, you can only choose Christianity. Maybe this is not 100% true if you only use your mind, but of course God was working too at that time. So I decided I wanted to become a Christian, but I had never had any contact with a Christian about the faith. (I live in a part of Holland where people just do not talk about religion, it's a kind of taboo). I was just praying on a day to God that I needed to have contact to Christians. Then I turned around 1 second later and I saw a poster of an IFES Christian student group. This was an answer and confirmation to me that I had made the right decision. I went to this student group and I have been involved there now for 4 years, in the beginning I learned there all the basics of the faith and the Christian life, later it was a place where I could pass on what I had learned and grow further. God can work in wondrous ways, even by radio without other people. Especially Trans World Radio has been a very important factor in the beginning. As you can imagine, for my experience of faith Gods wotd is very central, as I really have experienced what power it has. It was not people, or feelings, or friendship, but Gods word that convinced me. (not to say that in other cases love and friendship of people cannot be very important). -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht nmutsaer@ruunsa.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-534504 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands
kday@dtoa1.dt.navy.mil (Day) (08/06/90)
** this is the second shot at posting in case this looks like a
** repeat
In article <Jul.24.04.50.43.1990.17571@athos.rutgers.edu> cedric@fuzzy.corp.sun.com (Cedric Chin) writes:
>I'm curious and would like to know how you became a Christian -- or
>what's keeping you from becoming one.
>
I was raised in a Methodist church. There I grew believing in God,
though I really didn't know what to do about it. I just knew there was
a God, that Jesus was the Son of God and that we should do what he wants.
Near the end of my senior year of High School I started dating a girl
that went to a Southern Baptist church. I went to services with her,
but, just like I did at my church, never really listened to what was
being said. That fall her youth group was planning on going on a retreat.
They invited me along to play guitar. That evening they all sang a song
where each verse mentioned a day of the week and you were supposed to
stand on the day you got saved. I didn't have a day. Later that evening
we were having a devotional time. The leader played a record with a
song that said, "The train's about ready to leave. Do you have your
ticket?" No one had ever told me how to accept Christ, but, at that
moment, I knew I didn't have that ticket and I knew I wanted it. I bowed
my head and recieved Jesus into my life.
That was 17 years ago and the memory of how God touched my life that
night is as brilliant as it ever was. People say there isn't a God.
To them I say, having never met him, you probably would say that. Having
met him, having felt his hand in my life, I know there is a God. I also
know that he sent Jesus to show us the ultimate in love by giving his
life so we can live.
If you've read this and you have doubts as to Gods existence, ask
him to reveal himself to you. He will, because he loves you like no
person ever could. No matter what you've done or how you may have turned
your back on him in the past, he still loves you and is willing to meet
you where you are, today.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The more one comes to know men, the more one comes to admire the dog."
-Joussenel
------------------------------------------------------------------------walsh@astro.pc.ab.com (08/08/90)
In article <Aug.5.21.08.08.1990.18259@athos.rutgers.edu>, kday@dtoa1.dt.navy.mil (Day) writes: > They invited me along to play guitar. That evening they all sang a song > where each verse mentioned a day of the week and you were supposed to > stand on the day you got saved. Out of curiosity, could the poster of this or someone who shares his philosophy explain what "saved" means in this context? Is it an experiance so intense you remember what day of the week it was? Can you come to believe and not remember it was on a Wednesday? Can you become "unsaved" after being "saved?" Swaggart and Jimmy and Tammy come to mind. They were "saved", but acted like they needed a little more salvation, so can i assume it's not an absolute term? Does "saved" mean becoming a member of a church? If so, it seems to imply that this is the ultimate, final act of salvation. Does one who is "saved" need to work on himself or improve himself in any way, or is this no longer important? Perhaps it's done on the day of the week he remembers when he was saved? Hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful. I'd just like an explanation for terminology that's very common, but which i don't really grasp, not coming from that background. ando.
hwt@bwdlh490.bnr.ca (Henry Troup) (08/12/90)
In article <Aug.8.03.29.58.1990.12788@athos.rutgers.edu> walsh@astro.pc.ab.com writes: >Out of curiosity, could the poster of this or someone who shares >his philosophy explain what "saved" means in this context? Is it >an experiance so intense you remember what day of the week it was? >Can you come to believe and not remember it was on a Wednesday? I think that the original poster('s friends) were speaking of the 'conversion experience'. For many people, the conversion experience is a realization/ revelation on the same order of Saint Paul/Saul's - like unto a thunderbolt. My own return to the church I was bapitised into after years of drifting in vaguely secular humanist/atheist doubts has much more gradual. Certainly I eventually did the 'paperwork' and became confirmed in the Anglican Church, but that was years after I had admitted myself to communion. (That was never a problem, as all baptised Christians were invited.) So, yes, I believe some people have a sudden intense ecstatic experience, and some don't. The nearest I ever came to that kind of revelation was while arranging our wedding, and getting a hard time from the Altar Guild about who could choose the flowers, etc. I went into the church and prayed for guidance and got a 'cosmic bellylaugh' - the clear sense that I was worrying too much over trivia. As I was. -- Henry Troup - BNR owns but does not share my opinions | 21 years in Canada... uunet!bnrgate!hwt%bwdlh490 HWT@BNR.CA 613-765-2337 |
timh@linus.uucp (Tim Hoogasian) (08/12/90)
In article <Aug.8.03.29.58.1990.12788@athos.rutgers.edu> walsh@astro.pc.ab.com writes: >In article <Aug.5.21.08.08.1990.18259@athos.rutgers.edu>, kday@dtoa1.dt.navy.mil (Day) writes: > >Out of curiosity, could the poster of this or someone who shares >his philosophy explain what "saved" means in this context? Is it >an experiance so intense you remember what day of the week it was? >Can you come to believe and not remember it was on a Wednesday? "Saved" (to my understanding) indicates "owning" the salvation of Jesus Christ. To wit, having confessed one's at-root sinful nature and recognized that you can't save (perfect) yourself, and having (sincerely - which is something only you and God can really "know") asked Christ to forgive you those sins and assume Lordship of your life. it can be a "lightning-bolt" experience, or not. honestly, i don't recall the day/date that i asked Jesus into my life - i was a small child. it is an unfortunate fact that many lifelong Christians feel like second-class citizens when "testimony time" comes around, since they (i am included here) often feel like we've somehow "missed out" on something by not feeling able to say "My life was <a shambles> until Jesus saved me." >Can you become "unsaved" after being "saved?" Swaggart and Jimmy >and Tammy come to mind. They were "saved", but acted like they >needed a little more salvation, so can i assume it's not an absolute >term? you've managed to hit on a theological bomb here. Biblically, we are assured that our salvation cannot ever be taken away from us. the way i understand this is literally - our salvation may not be removed from us by anyone or any power. however, if i walk away from Christ, back into continual willful sin, i believe i can "throw away" my salvation. (how else to understand Peter (if i remember correctly?) charging that those who were once saved but threw away the gift cannot be saved again, lest Christ be crucified twice?) >Does "saved" mean becoming a member of a church? ^^^^^^^^ no. not at all. to be a Christian is to have a personal walk ("relationship") with Jesus Christ - to love and serve Him as Lord of your life. If so, it seems >to imply that this is the ultimate, final act of salvation. Does one >who is "saved" need to work on himself or improve himself in any way, >or is this no longer important? again, another knotty issue. Christ's salvation is final, yes. We are justified by Him through his Grace (Unmerited Favor). We don't (can't!) "earn" salvation. However, this must NOT be construed to indicate that we have now a carte blanche to sin "so that grace may abound." those whose names are in the Book of Life (those who have accepted Christ) will not be Judged as others who have rejected Him (and hence condemned themselves), but they will still be called to account for their actions. so yes, it is by all means still "important" to work on yourself (some would phrase this as having the Holy Spirit work on *you*). Perhaps it's done on the day of the >week he remembers when he was saved? as the bumper sticker says so eloquently, "Christians are not perfect - just Saved." >Hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful. I'd just like >an explanation for terminology that's very common, but which i don't >really grasp, not coming from that background. hope this helps, then. > ando. Tim | ARPA: timh@ide.com Hoogasian | UUCP: sun!ide!timh (415) 543-0900 =============================================================================== #define DISCLAIMER "Are you nuts? I don't represent anyone, let alone myself!"
bgriese@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Beth Griese) (08/17/90)
The original question asked about being "saved", and I think my
experience may have a lesson in it:
I accepted Jesus when I was 7 years old. I grew up in a church and had
listened faithfully to what I was being taught. I believed in the
sacrifice Jesus made to make up for our sins.
I also remember what day I accepted Christ. It was on a Sunday. I know
because I was sitting my room thinking about hearing for what seemed
the 500th time about how we have to accpt Jesus and his sacrifice into
our hearts. I was even thinking how monotonous it was to hear that
over and over again.
And that was when i realized that for all that I "knew" and all that I
"believed", I had never actually accepted Christ as my savior. Right
then and there I knelt at my bed and prayed a simple little girl's
prayer to let Jesus know I wanted him into my heart, that I knew the
sacrifice he had made for me on the cross, that I thanked him for it,
and accepted the gift of his forgiveness.
I know there are many theological differences about exactly what you
must do to be saved, and I could argue for hours on end with people
who say you must pray a certain prayer, or do a certain act, or be
baptized a certain baptism. But at that moment when I just prayed a
simple prayer, I felt the strangest sensation-- like an actual warm
liquid was being poured into me. It was a great feeling,
unforgettable.
That was the start of my Christain walk, and since then i have been
baptized and prayed all the right prayers and done all the right
deeds, but I classify those as part of my walk, not as prerequisites
to being forgiven as a child of God. But that can start a whole new
never-ending thread for people to scream at each other about.
As for becoming "un-saved" or falling from grace, I think back to same
feeling that I have to believe was the touch of the Lord. I haven't
committed any great sacrileges against Christ, but I have strayed from
the path plenty of times since I was 7. And many times I've
re-committed my life to Jesus, re-affirming with Him that He is still
part of me and I still accept and want his forgiveness and guidance in
my life.
I've come away from those experiences feeling good and at peace, of
course, but I never again felt the same feeling as that watm liquid. I
believe that's because that first feeling was almost a material
manifestation of Christ entering my life, and the reason I never felt
it again is because after that time, Christ never left my life. If I
felt that again, it would mean that Christ had left and was now coming
back again.
I know my arguments aren't based in deep theological discourse or
rooted in every related Bible verse I can find. I can get those if
you'd like, and so could you, so my talk is about what *I* think and
feel and know. And since I'm a newcomer to the net and this newsgroup,
I think this is a pretty great intro for me and the way I think.
God bless (and believe me, he does!)
--Beth
-=-
Beth Griese-- journalist at large | "My kingdom for a quiet movie theater
(or at least for hire) | or a loud dance floor."
|
--Columbus, OH (Ohio State University alumnus-Go Bucks!)