[soc.religion.christian] The Splitting of Heave, satan, Angels, and Repentence.

jygabler@ucdavis.edu (Jason Y. Gabler) (08/20/90)

	Often when speaking of salvation, the question has come up ( in my
personal experiences ), "Do satan's minions have the chance of repentence, and
even satan himself?"

	My answer has always been:

	For human salvation to take place, what is needed is Faith.  Faith in
1) God's existance, 2) Jesus' death, 3) Jesus' ressurection, 4) Jesus is God,
.... and other finer points in what it means to "believe in Jesus".  But the
fact of the matter is Faith.  Without it we are not saved.
	So, the assumption is, if we were sinless and stood before God daily
(lets say, lived with Him in heaven), we would know the Truth of God's 
existance, Jesus' death, ressuerction...etc.  There is no necessity of Faith,
only acceptance of fact.
	The reason why humanity gets its second chance after every human does
his/her first real sin and commits him/herself to eternity without God, is
that we have never *seen* God.  God is physically intangible, and invisible.
And especially today, the "stories" of Jesus are remote and ancient.  God
gives us leeway (sp?) because of our humanity.  Before sinning, we have no
realization of a need for God, after sinning, sometime or another, that
becomes something we ponder.  God sees our sin, sees our human ignorance,
and then lets us in on the fact of His Love ( i.e. though someone witnessing).
We believe, accept, and recieve salvation.  Then the rest of our lives are
still a struggle to follow God becuase we cannot perceive His omnipresence.
e.g. If your father was actually glued to you, would you have done half the
things you did when in his care?  I wouldn't have ;).  So every time we decide
to refrain from sin, it is a step of Faith in God's omnipresence, and of course
obedience to, and Love for God

	However, lets take it from and angelic point of view.  They have seen
God.  The know all the truths to be true.  To sin or deny God directly
is out right "mutiny".  It is not the rejection of someone preaching the
Gospel; nor is it the rejection of the Holy Spirit's call.  It is the rejection
of the Father Himself, in His presence.  There is no forgiveness for this.
The fallen angels have no repentence because the know beyond a shadow of a
doubt the truths, and still rejected it.  The Father, and they know it with
all there "minds", is "glued to them" through His omnipitence, yet the fallen
ones still sinned against Him.

-----

	OK... end of my opinion.  Now I ask for all of yours, and your opinion
of my opinion :)

Thanx,




jase



Jason Gabler   UCD Computing Services, Data Communications Group  *cable grunt*
ccjason@castor.ucdavis.edu jygabler@ucdavis.bitnet gods-tale-request@ucdavis.edu

johnw@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Warren) (08/27/90)

In article <Aug.19.22.50.28.1990.16440@athos.rutgers.edu> jygabler@ucdavis.edu (Jason Y. Gabler) writes:
>
>So every time we decide
>to refrain from sin, it is a step of Faith in God's omnipresence, and of course
>obedience to, and Love for God
>
>jase
>
It seems you have the cart before the horse here.  The truth is that every time
we take steps of Faith we are refraining from sin, not the other way around.
"That which is not of faith is sin"  (somewhere the New Testament).