billmc@microsoft.UUCP (Bill MCJOHN) (07/02/90)
Mark C. Christianson <christm@stolaf.edu> says: > I personally find praying the rosary objectionable for one mail reason. > Praying the complete rosary is a long process, and one must repeat > the Hail Mary and the Lord's Prayer many times. I don't think God is > going to hear us any better if we pray a prayer once, ten times, or > even a million times. He will hear and understand fully the first time. > Christ condemned the pagans' prayer for "thier many words." That would > seem to me to also apply to the practice of praying the rosary. > But the purpose of the Rosary is not so much in the repetition of the prayers as the meditation on the mysteries (five joyful, five sorrowful, and five glorious) which follow the life of Jesus through the eyes of Mary. In this way it is indeed intense, interior prayer. A parallel which you might find more appealing is the Jesus Prayer, which is prominent in Orthodox spirituality (especially in the Russian church): 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' This simple (and beautiful) formula, which succinctly sums up the central mysteries of Incarnation and redemption, is repeated continually and endlessly, until it becomes a constant background to daily life. Both the Rosary and the Jesus Prayer reflect a mystical, or contemplative, understanding of prayer. They are not intent on particular needs, but seek to transform the worshipper, and to bring him or her to a more perfect union with God. I don't repeat my prayers to make sure God hears them--I repeat them to make sure _I_ hear them. Bill McJohn
cms@gatech.edu (08/30/90)
I have posted several articles on the Rosary, however, few people have responded to them. Does anyone really pray the Rosary anymore? At my aunt's funeral last week, we prayed the Glorious Mysteries during the viewing of the body. I noticed that, although the purpose of this viewing was to pray the Rosary, very few people actually had Rosaries with them (not that you need the beads to pray the Rosary). I love the Franciscan Rosary. I'm also very fond of the Rosary of Saint Michael and All Angels. Perhaps people don't experience the power of meditation anymore. I think a lot of people simply pray the prayers without really meditating on the Mysteries; in this case, the oft-quoted Protestant complaint referencing the Scriptural injunction against repetitious prayer holds up well. When deep in meditation on the Mysteries, however, the Rosary has a power that can only come from God to empty the believer so completely of self, especially in the Fifth Sorrowful Mystery, that only the First Glorious can bring the believer back up again, rising through the Cross, into the glory of God. -- Sincerely, Cindy Smith emory!dragon!cms
stabosz@sun.udel.edu (Rae Stabosz) (09/02/90)
This is in answer to Cindy Smith's question of does anyone pray the rosary anymore. I do. I have several rosaries, one in fact I see hanging next to my Novell netware manuals off my bookcase at work. It's there with all the other clutter of my office so I don't have to worry about whether it's ostentatious or not. My two favorite rosaries (I realize I'm talking about the objects now, I'll get to the prayer in a moment) are the one my daughter brought me back from Montreal (I like it because my daughter is a religious cynic pretty much but she knows what I like) & my mother-in-law's rosary, which is nice thick heavy black glassy beads of some sort, it was probably expensive, she had it for years, & my husband asked his brothers & sisters if I could have it, after she died. So it is a link to her. I go on & off with my praying of the rosary. It's an excellent meditative prayer, & I have lots of books on how others have prayed it. Those are fun, esp. the ones with illustrations of the mysteries. I have some woodcuts that I often use as a meditative focus, from one of these books. I don't like praying it with others so much, for a couple of reasons. In my Roman Catholic parish, praying the rosary after Saturday morning Mass is a custom, but it has become somewhat politicized. The nuclear rosary group is also identified as the more conservative group, some of whom broke off from our religious education program to form their own more traditional program. There were bad feelings about that whole process, & I just can't get around the politicization of issues when the Saturday morning rosary begins, so I usually leave. Weird. I hate not being at peace when at prayer. CIndy, you have spoken of being consecrated (is that the right verb to describe it for you?) to Mary in some capacity. I have been consecrated to Mary via the St. Louis de Montfort "True Devotion" consecration for about 15 years. I go on & off with what this means, & who Mary is & how I am to live out my commitment to Christ in this manner. But the rosary is a part of this devotion, not as integral as in some other devotions. There is a "little crown of Mary" rosary chaplet which the Montfortians use also, which I have not used myself for awhile. I realize this is rambling. I'm feeling the "anti-Mary" sentiment that I see in this newsgroup sometimes, breathing down my neck. So it's hard to verbalize what I want to express. Mostly I wanted to let CIndy know that there are others out there for whom the rosary is important also. Also I have enjoyed all CIndy's postings about Anglican Catholicism. It was an eye-opener to me. I knew that Anglicans & Episcopalians were close to ROman Catholics in many ways, but I honestly had no idea that they did not refer to themselves as Protestants. When I read "a real live Catholic in Georgia" I assumed absolutely that you meant Roman Catholic, Cindy, so I have learned a lot from your postings. Rae
djc@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Dusan J. Cyprich) (09/02/90)
Hi Cindy. I *intend* to pray the Rosary right after I learn it and buy
Rosary beads. I recently bought a little tract explaining how to pray it.
All I have to do now is memorize it, buy the beads, and pray it!
Pray for me that I can get started doing this!
God bless
djccms@gatech.edu (09/04/90)
In article <Sep.1.23.03.57.1990.6532@athos.rutgers.edu>, stabosz@sun.udel.edu (Rae Stabosz) writes: > I go on & off with my praying of the rosary. It's an excellent > meditative prayer, & I have lots of books on how others have prayed > it. Those are fun, esp. the ones with illustrations of the mysteries. > I have some woodcuts that I often use as a meditative focus, from one > of these books. I love the woodcuts too. My favorite meditation picture as a child was for the First Glorious Mystery: Against a hazy, grayish background, a naked Jesus is lying on a stone slab; one knee is raised, his headcloth has fallen off to the side, other white burial cloths are falling off his body, as he is rising within the tomb. I used to think, "My God, he really did rise again." I love the First Glorious Mystery; I used to cheat and pray it twice :-). > I don't like praying it with others so much, for a couple of reasons. > In my Roman Catholic parish, praying the rosary after Saturday morning > Mass is a custom, but it has become somewhat politicized. The nuclear > rosary group is also identified as the more conservative group, some of > whom broke off from our religious education program to form their own > more traditional program. There were bad feelings about that whole > process, & I just can't get around the politicization of issues when > the Saturday morning rosary begins, so I usually leave. Weird. I > hate not being at peace when at prayer. It's too bad the Rosary has become politicized in that way. Perhaps you could form your own Rosary group; there are lots of different organizations devoted to Mary in the Rosary. The Anglican Society of Mary has Wards in the Roman Catholic Church, but perhaps you could start a Legion of Mary (which is Roman Catholic), which as I recall is heavily into Louis de Montfort spirituality about which you speak in a moment. On the other hand, you could just start a simple Rosary group unaffiliated with anyone :-). I do know what you mean about praying the Rosary individually, however. When I pray the Rosary by myself, I pray at my own pace, lingering over one Mystery as I need to, or speeding past another one, to delve more deeply into the next one. The first three Hail Mary beads (on the tail, as we call it :-)), prayed before the Rosary proper begins, are traditionally prayed for faith, hope, and love; I have occasionally prayed a decade on the faith bead when I felt that my faith needed strengthening. You can't really do that in a group. The same is true of the Fourteen Stations of the Cross. Working through the Stations at your own pace can be more spiritually uplifting, although I'm not discounting group prayer. You know what I mean? > CIndy, you have spoken of being consecrated (is that the right verb to > describe it for you?) to Mary in some capacity. I have been consecrated > to Mary via the St. Louis de Montfort "True Devotion" consecration for > about 15 years. I go on & off with what this means, & who Mary is & how > I am to live out my commitment to Christ in this manner. But the rosary > is a part of this devotion, not as integral as in some other devotions. I consecrated my heart to the Immaculate Heart of Mary when I was a child. The consecration was a private thing between myself and God. Louis de Montfort called it "Consecration to Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Wisdom Through the Blessed Virgin Mary," which went like this: "O Eternal and Incarnate Wisdom! O sweetest and most adorable Jesus! True God and true man, only Son of the Eternal Father, and of Mary, always Virgin! I adore you profoundly in the bosom and splendors of Your Father during eternity; and I adore You also in the virginal bosom of Mary, Your most worthy Mother, in the time of Your Incarnation." etc. Subsequent to thanksgiving to God for the Cross of our Redemption, thanksgiving for the intercessions of Mary, living tabernacle of God where the Eternal Wisdom was pleased to dwell, I renewed my baptismal vows thus: "I, a faithless sinner, renew and ratify today in your hands the vows of my Baptism; I renounce forever Satan, his pomps and works; and I give myself entirely to Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Wisdom, to carry my cross after him all the days of my life, and to be more faithful to Him than I have ever been before. In the presence of all the heavenly court I choose you this day for my Mother and my Lady. I deliver and consecrate to you, as your servant, my body and soul, my goods, both interior and exterior, and even the value of all my good deeds, past, present, and future; leaving to you the entire and full right of dispose of me, and all that belongs to me, without exception, according to your good pleasure, for the greater glory of God in time and in eternity." More thanksgivings follow. Then, "O admirable Mother, present me to your dear Son as His eternal servant, so that as He has redeemed me by you, by you may he receive me! O Mother of mercy, grant me the grace to obtain the true Wisdom of God....O faithful Virgin, make me in all things so perfect a disciple, imitator and servant of the Incarnate Wisdom, Jesus Christ your Son, that I may attain, by your intercession and by your example, to the fullness of his age on earth and of his glory in Heaven. Amen." It's a lovely prayer in full but I've chosen to repeat only what I think are the best parts of it. > There is a "little crown of Mary" rosary chaplet which the Montfortians > use also, which I have not used myself for awhile. I checked my files on various kinds of Rosaries and didn't see this one. The closest ones I have are the "little crown of the Infant Jesus of Prague" and this one: The Crown of Our Lord (Camaldolese) The Crown of Our Lord consists of 33 beads -- 3 decades and 3 additional beads commemorating the 33 years of the earthly life of Our Lord. There are two methods of reciting this crown. The first method is as follows: Having made the sign of the cross say: "O God incline unto my aid; O Lord make haste to help me." The mystery is then announced, e.g., "Jesus, Who sweat blood for us, etc." Then follow 1 Hail Mary, 10 Our Fathers, and 1 Glory Be. These are all to be repeated 3 times. Then add 1 Hail Mary, 3 Our Fathers, and another Hail Mary. The 5 Hail Marys are to commemorate the Five Holy Wounds. The second method consists of meditating on an event from the life or passion of Our Lord while saying the prescribed Our Father or Hail Mary. I realize that these must not be the same thing; is it similar? Collecting different kinds of Rosaries is kind of a hobby of mine. Currently, I'm working on an article for the Society of Mary on various kinds of Rosaries. Could you tell me how the "little crown of Mary" is prayed, how many beads (or is a standard Dominican Rosary used), names of Mysteries, etc.? Thanks! > I realize this is rambling. I'm feeling the "anti-Mary" sentiment > that I see in this newsgroup sometimes, breathing down my neck. So > it's hard to verbalize what I want to express. Mostly I wanted to > let CIndy know that there are others out there for whom the rosary is > important also. Also I have enjoyed all CIndy's postings about Anglican > Catholicism. It was an eye-opener to me. I knew that Anglicans & > Episcopalians were close to ROman Catholics in many ways, but I honestly > had no idea that they did not refer to themselves as Protestants. When > I read "a real live Catholic in Georgia" I assumed absolutely that you > meant Roman Catholic, Cindy, so I have learned a lot from your postings. I have defended a lot of Catholic beliefs and practices in the past (both Roman and Anglican), so I know where you're coming from. However, I'm hoping that we have a discussion about the spirituality of the Rosary (as well as other Catholic topics) without a great deal of conflict. Generally, when discussing other religions such as Mormonism or Judaism, I try to find out what they believe, how I'm mistaken if I am mistaken, and read a lot, ask a lot of questions, etc., without attacking. I regret having appeared a bit harsh on Mormon beliefs without making a greater effort to understand how _they_ feel about what they believe. No doubt Mormons wish a forum to discuss their faith without conflict as well. What bothers me about Mormonism is their repudiation of the validity of all Christian denominations as well as the Trinity. I have great respect for Protestant beliefs and practices and I hope they will ask questions about Catholic spirituality, such as in the Rosary, without repudiating its validity. > Rae Yours in Christ, Cindy Smith Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter A Real Live Catholic in Georgia A dyed-in-the-wool Southern Catholic in the Anglican Communion "For us the causes of justice and social concern are an essential part of evangelization. Our own history has taught us that preaching to the poor and to those who suffer injustice without concern for their plight and the systemic cause of their plight is to trivialize the Gospel and mock the cross. To preach to the powerful without denouncing oppression is to promise Easter without Calvary, forgiveness without conversion and healing without cleansing the wound." The Social Apostolic on Black Catholics in the U.S. Catholic Almanac 1990 (pg. 488)
walsh@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (09/04/90)
In article <Aug.30.03.09.56.1990.24088@athos.rutgers.edu>, emory!dragon!cms@gatech.edu writes: > I have posted several articles on the Rosary, however, few people > have responded to them. Does anyone really pray the Rosary anymore? You know, i'd have to say no, at least compared to the past. What this points to is a bunch of good followup questions: a. Has the Catholic Church reinvented itself since Vat-II? By this i mean: has it kept the Pope and hierarchy while basically abandoning the mediaeval latin spirituality? b. Why was the old latin spirituality abandoned? Not only the rosary, but the Rule of St Benedict, cloistered monasticism, the Vulgate Psalter, a real sense of celibacy among the priesthood, and all the rest. c. What does contemporary catholic spirituality consist of? As an outsider, it looks to me like it consists of anti-abortion rallys, some hokey attempts to immitate protestant pentacostalism, loyalty to the Pope and one's ethnic origins. Pretty flat beer. I don't mean to appear disrespectful, but this is fascinating as an example of a church throwing itself into a tunnel of radical change without (it seems to me) a lot of thought. I understood they already have lost 33%-40% of their church-going membership since the 60's. The rosary question is indicitive. Does the Catholic Church even exist any more (outside of EWTN)? > > -- > Sincerely, > Cindy Smith > emory!dragon!cms ando.
jhpb@granjon.garage.att.com (09/20/90)
Roseanne asked about the mysteries of the Rosary:
Is anyone out there able to help me with a list?
Cindy posted the mysteries. The following prayers are standard at
chapels of the Society of St. Pius X, where virtually everyone prays the
Rosary every day:
Preparatory prayers:
- Sign of the Cross
- Apostle's Creed (on the Crucifix)
- Our Father (1st bead)
- 3 Hail Marys for Faith, Hope, Charity
- Glory be
Then for each decade:
- Our Father
- 10 Hail Marys
- Glory be
- Fatima Prayer (O My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires
of Hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most
need of thy mercy. ) (This prayer was requested at the Fatima
apparitions of 1917. I don't recall if it was our Lady herself who
asked, or the guardian angel of Portugal.)
I'm eager to make contact with other educated, technically-hip,
Catholics.
There are several here. We will be most happy to argue heatedly about
anything and everything. :-) Oh, for a Catholic mailing list.
Try TAN books in Rockford, Illinois if you need good Catholic books.
Joe Buehler
Anyone who thinks there are better prayers than the Our Father and Hail
Mary is under a strange illusion of the Devil. -- St. Louis de Montfort.